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Cytori Therapeutics, Inc. Message Board

  • john.gerondis john.gerondis Dec 29, 2012 11:45 AM Flag

    A moment in our prospective partners shoes

    I, like most am upset that a partnership deal has not been signed ....... yet. The reasons are a matter of conjecture. A lot has been made of the deals with GE and Olympus not providing anything substantial. Most are quick to forget that at one time they provided validation of the technology, and were instrumental in many investors making or expanding their investment in CYTX.

    CC has experienced a bad partnership deal in the past and I believe/hope that this will have made him more careful. As this is potentially the first of many partnership deals, we have to make sure that it is structured correctly and we are compensated well - setting the bar high. Ours is a unique product proposition that potentially will be rolled out in a large number of indications and distributed by a considerable number of different companies who compete amongst each other.

    Which brings me to the point ........ has anyone considered the challenges of handling off label (or on label) use for a product with differential pricing depending on the indication, for what is in effect a generic product (the patients cells)? By generic I mean/question, how different is the Celution output for lung , heart, kidney, wound healing, SUI, breast reconstruction etc?. Does anyone REALLY know?

    The addition of other drugs, compounds or devices etc. for a particular indication does not belong to CYTX. If the added feature is not of a proprietary nature to the partner company (or if there are alternatives) then it is all about the practice of medicine which cannot be patented. This is not an easy negotiation for us, OR the joint venture partners. They will want assurances that they own the indication they pay for. Additionally, if for example a Japanese company pays for trials confirming efficacy in liver disease (eg cirrhosis) it is reasonable that they will want worldwide rights, not only for Japan.

    This is a case of "only big boys need apply" ........ and big boys play rough. Cytori is definitely playing in the big leagues, with all that that entails.

    Sentiment: Strong Buy

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    • John,

      Yes you are correct that there are unique issues related to the Cytori's business model. I recall bringing up these potential complications on this board in a discussion years ago, regarding how to parcel out rights to individual partners/indications so that exclusivity is maintained. However, this is no excuse for repeatedly making promises that are not delivered. CC has been at the epicenter of these issues and negotiations for years and should take them into account when making comments like "very, very, very close". None of us are in a position to KNOW for sure why CC failed to delivery but the fact of the matter is that he has not been capable at delivering on his own words, time and time again. This is a major issue that needs to be addressed by the board, IMHO, either with a new CEO, or better yet, a lucrative partnership deal that ends the need for any further dilution. I'd be much happier with the latter.

      WST

      Sentiment: Strong Buy

      • 2 Replies to wall_street_titan
      • dickens@att.net dickens Dec 31, 2012 12:08 PM Flag

        don't you mean "time, and time, and time" again?

      • You are right, WST, "This is a major issue that needs to be addressed by the board." And presumably it already has, since management performance and critical partnerships are subject to board oversight. In fact, if the board isn't actively addressing these issues, it is the directors that should be replaced!

        The fact that partnership agreements haven't been signed and that management hasn't been dumped implies the board is satified with the current situation. Of course, this could change at any time. But until then, shareholders have two choices. They can accept that the board is doing their job and patiently wait. Or they can lose faith in the board and either sell their stock or try to make changes by pressuring the board.

        Now some here think management should be telling us more about what is going on. But my interpretation is that it is the potential partners that are balking. Or perhaps they are changing or offering terms that are unacceptable to CYTX. CYTX can't talk publically about ongoing negotiations between several competing partner candidates. Management should not have indicated that a deal would be signed soon, but should have waited until something was signed.

        This investment is exciting and has a lot of upside, but so far it has been a disappointment. In the end, the science will win out. The treatments will either be effective and safe or not. They will receive regulatory approvals or not. They will make CYTX and its shareholders a lot of money or not. Since we don't know the outcome, it seems reasonable not to know the exact timing of any outcome be it success or failure.

        I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I'm going to patiently hold on to this stock and see how it plays out.

    • "CC has experienced a bad partnership deal in the past and I believe/hope that this will have made him more careful"
      This #$%$ isn´t able to learn something. He will go on lying the shareholders again and again. He is only interested in making money for nothing (I hope he wont get a dollar some at the end of january)

    • JC, With all due respect.... There is no conjecture needed. We were promised by the board a deal would be done by the end of LAST year. Your point on the "challenges"....these challenges were ALL known factors that management needs to weigh when figuring out their 3 and 5 year strat plan..... Let alone informing the owners/shareholders timelines that have missed on a partnership by over a full year!! No, there is no conjecture needed with that great of time lapsed with multiple self imposed deadlines missed... Once... Even twice perhaps ....again, there is no conjuncture needed.
      Regards

    • john your points are well taken. perhaps valid if this were only our first or second time around the block. there have been numerous do overs. too many in fact to excuse as easily as you appear to be willing to do on your post. it's time to in fact be a big boy and accept the reality of the facts as they have occured throught the history of cytori. no denying mangement has brought the company a long way. progress has been stalled. mangement has set it's own expectations and time tables. mangement has crowed 10 times our wildest dreams. management said one possibly two deals before year end. management has said avoid dilution at all costs and so on and so on and so on. so where do he stand $2.65 and no meanignful communication from or explanation from mangement. no deals and no credibility. no credibility with current shareholders and no credibility in the market place. can you trade and make money no question. i am not speaking to traders or shorts. talking to investors. it's time for mangement to stand up and take accountability and that is where we stand. time for a change for a better future and realization and successful comercialization of the science that is cytori's.

    • As usual, you raise good points.

      Perhaps it makes sense for CYTX to go it alone for awhile and not sign any partnership deals near term. It would give the clinical and investigator trials more time to show serious value creating progress. It would give the regulators more time to warm up to the technolgy's safety and efficacy. Partnership agreements would be far more valuable after more progress is demonstrated.

      The key downside to patiently waiting to make progress is that CYTX would have to raise more cash. But perhaps the ultimate dilution suffered will pale in comparison to the value created in the mean time. The risk of signing deals now is that CYTX may have to give up too much of a massive upside. Maybe shareholders would be better waiting for a partnership despite considerable dilution.

      As I said before, I'm holding this stock one way or the other. Whatever maximizes my long-term profits is what I'd like to see. I know many others here want a quick profit, to make up quickly for losses, or for warrants or options to pay off before they expire. My hope is that management and the board will do what's best in the long run interests of the firm. And we know it's far easier for them to patiently wait because they get cash, stock and options every year!

 
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