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MannKind Corp. Message Board

  • rapp78 rapp78 Aug 19, 2013 4:58 PM Flag

    Shorter Tails Do Not Work

    Afrezza starts working in 12-15 minutes, peaks in 30 minutes and is 80% out of your body within 2 hours. Yet your body continues to digest food and turn carbohydrates, fats and proteins into glucose.

    This is why a T1's bg levels continue to rise throughout the day even when they are not eating carbs. This is why aspart has longer tails and why Pfizer, Lilly and Nova all ditched inhalable insulin. Afrezza patients had extremely high bg levels in the late post prandial and evening times vs. the aspart arm. Better fasting bg levels, but A1c's 1/2 as good as aspart = wide variability throughout the day.

    We are now starting to see, via 171, how Dr. Mann's theory of "a shorter tail will allow for better glycemic control and fewer hypos" is simply plain wrong. 171 proves it.

    This theory was grounded in MARKETING, not in SCIENCE.

    Yes, hypos were better in aspart arm (although severe hypos were statistically insignificant among the two groups) but at the expense of A1c's being HALF AS GOOD!

    If you read my May and June posts regarding the small "goldilocks" window in diabetes mgmt, you will better understand why less hypos and better glycemic control is such a difficult, delicate balance.

    Would the FDA rather see Afrezza A1c's that are HALF as GOOD as asparts with statistically insignificant severe hypos OR trial results like 117 where Afrezza's A1c's were actually better than asparts and still had fewer hypos? The answer is the latter. The answer is Medtone, not Dreamboat.

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    • You have some stuff wrong in some posts but at least your thinking....its sad what's happened with the other longs.....

    • hey Rapp it's gotta be pretty ugly to be you trying to make money at the cost of improved health for millions of people based in your deceit as a clear voice of those who are a part of your Shortie Raid. I'm reporting you and placing you on IGGY. Your opinion is worthless banter to make yourself money... it has no substance.
      Thieves and manipulators like you can f off.

      Sentiment: Strong Buy

      • 1 Reply to thekindaguyiyam
      • Your statement assumes Afrezza improves health for millions of people. How do you know it does? A1c's were 1.9 times better in the aspart arm. Afrezza did half as well as aspart. How is that improved health?

        Not to mention the tremendous blood glucose variations Afrezza caused in the trial. Better fasting glucose levels and worse A1c's equals wild intraday blood glucose fluctuations. These wild swings is what leads to much of the microvascular disease rampant among diabetics.

        Go read some medical journals on how dangerous that is for diabetics. The best treatment for diabetics reduces swings and keeps blood glucose as close to normal levels as possible, at all times. 171 proved aspart is much better doing this than Afrezza.

        For Type 2's the .4 better A1c's is not outweighed by the increased weight gain, 67% hypo rate, more serious adverse events, more cough, etc. Not to mention long term lung safety questions you don't even know about yet. Pfizer was the only company to do these and it resulted in increased lung cancer rates.

        I've been Type 1 for 20 years and achieve normal A1c's in the mid 5's on Humalog and Lantus. Based upon these results, I would never give up needles for Afrezza.

    • I suppose everyone should have their pancreas removed because by the sound of you Novolog works so much better than your pancreas, I have no insulin resistance and peak for me on Novo 90-110 minutes. So tell me in a normal person when you eat does your pancreas release insulin in minutes or in 90-110 minutes. Yes all this is a delicate balance and diabetics should have their choice of how they play this game of balance. For me I prefer Afrezza which mimics the pancreas without the fear of lows. Some people prefer to drive the yugos and plenty were sold. You can keep planning out your meals and make calculations. For me on the trials I made no meals plans and eat what I wanted to when I wanted and achieved a 7.1 and like I said I can achieve low 6s if I can take control of my dosage and be more aggressive. Sorry but I did not see my bloodsugars continue to rise through the day. In fact explain how I was able to maintain blood sugars between 80-120 with not one reading below 70 or above 120 before or after meals. In fact even a normal healthy person could not achieve this. This is impossible to achieve on humolog or novolog for a type 1 person. Impossible!!!!! This is with me taking the insulin at the start of the meal without planning anything in advance.

    • I don't agree with your premise that a healthy pancreas that secretes insulin such that its tail disappears in 12 minutes is not as good as injected insulin. Just because Afreeza mimics very close to a healthy pancreas is not a good reason to bad mouth it.

    • Yeah, I think I will listen to you over the science and the 390th richest man on the planet... as I honor the existence of men like Mr. Mann, your existence saddens me even more.

      Sentiment: Strong Buy

    • Tool

    • yeah but these moron shorts are going to pound the better a1c levels for months. im a type 1 who takes humalog and after i eat my dinner or lunch or breakfast i still have to eat because the humalog keeps pushing the blood sugars down and in return i gain weight.

      • 1 Reply to charles_lacy2003
      • Rapp is one of those moron shorts. He can't get it through his head that the primary end points are satisfied. He ignores all of the significant benefits of Afrezza and continues to harp on a1c levels, which despite his bashing passed the FDA criteria by the way. Now watch him respond with something to the effect that he's been a type1 for 20 years, blah blah blah. Why is it that all trial patients and doctors who used/prescribed Afrezza, have a very positive opinion of the product? Who do you trust - doctors and patients of Afrezza and Al Mann, or this bashing tool named Rapp?

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