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  • notthatflop notthatflop Jan 28, 2013 9:59 AM Flag

    OT: Simple Gun Regulation

    All the proposals that are being submitted are just band-aids that do not address the real issue. Easy access to guns via private gun sales (gun show loop hole) or ability to buy 10+ guns at a time are the real issue. No background checks required for long guns (assault weapons), just hand guns. Example: Guy in Charlotte had been buying AK-47s last three months (as many as he could at a time from local gun stores), then reselling them in parking lots (google it). Is that right?

    Simple solution:
    1) Background checks for all guns, including long guns (assault weapons, etc.)
    2) Limit gun purchases to one gun. Then have a 6-12m wait period before being able to buy another gun AND another background check

    Simple solution.

    OK, start whining……

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    • Since the common thread running through most mass murders is a mentally unstable individual pulling the trigger the obvious solution is not gun control but unstable individual control. You can ban all gun and ammunition sales from here on in and nothing will change. Since singling out mentally defective people is prohibited by our constitution I see no solution to the problem. Consider it to be the price we pay for our individual freedoms. Of course the politicians will pass feel-good legislation that will accomplish nothing when they should be manning up and doing what is necessary to get our economy back on track. Since both the right to own firearms and the right to personal privacy are guaranteed by our constitution we are at a stalemate. Nobody wants to hear there is no solution but it's the unsavory truth.

      • 1 Reply to gregorygrc
      • Re: "Since the common thread running through most mass murders is a mentally unstable individual pulling the trigger the obvious solution is not gun control but unstable individual control. ...."

        A lot of the bizarre and dramatic mass murders are done by mentally ill but overall the mentally ill commit less shootings and violence than normal folk and, in fact, the mentally ill are more often victims of violence and crime than normal folk.

        Sentiment: Strong Buy

    • A simple solution is not trying to regulate guns!
      Regulate the ammunition, it is a lot easier to stop the problems with guns if there are better controls on the ammunition supply!
      Guns do not kill and mame, Bullets do!

      • 1 Reply to mr.k2626
      • Don't think that would work:

        1. It would only create a black market for ammo.
        2. Even now people are reloading their own ammo due to increasing cost.
        3. As for limiting rounds per clip, it is rather foolish. Anyone could belt on several loaded clips. It only takes seconds to reload.

        Maybe, just maybe if the NRA was brought into the discussion, instead of constantly berating them some good advice could be had. Who has more expertise than them? Holding out an olive branch and seeking cooperation could go a long way. It wouldn't hurt to try. Some compromise by both sides on this issue could result in a solution.

        Sentiment: Buy

    • Really the problem with gun violence could be solved over night,, any crime committed with a gun, then automatic life in the slammer and if you kill someone with a gun during a crime, death,,
      Trouble is that the politicians and the fkin lawyers would never let that pass claiming right, well those kids that were killed, do they have right,, public hanging for that mother f:u:c:ker, crazy or not,,

      Sentiment: Hold

      • 2 Replies to craigsswanndo
      • Doc, that is part of the problem. As a society we feel long term jail sentences, especially for young people, are unfair - look at the stats on repeat offenders. If the penalty were harsh enough it would be a deterrent to gun violence, not the Newtown kind of course.

        Another problem is the options for parents with violent children with mental,ilness. If they can't get medical help the only other solution is the criminal justice system and most parents don't want to do that to their kids.

      • Good discussion and input on this subject tonight.......civil and no anger detected. Thamls to all. I'm outta here.

    • No here's what we need to do,, we need to tell all the guns that they need to stay inside and not soot themselves or they will be in trouble,, now how ridiculous do that sound,,
      We go after the gun violators and put them in jail,, like that guy you mentioned flop, put his butt in jail for ten years and the word will get around,, you commit a crime with a gun and it is automatic life in the slammer,, THAT would move to stop gun violence,,

      Sentiment: Hold

      • 2 Replies to craigsswanndo
      • Right Dickw - it varies with each State, that in and of itself is an issue. Nor am I advocating not being able to purchase or own guns and be able to defend oneself. The larger question is really about how? I think the majority would agree that what I posted about that guy in Charlotte is really not just wrong, but now we have guys running around with these damn guns that they couldn't purchase legally. I mean, if you are buying a gun in a parking lot, there may be an issue.


        Jan 29, 2013, Bill Blum

        Just when you thought the debate over gun control couldn’t get any more twisted, the old claim has been revived that slavery might not have lasted so long in America if black people had been granted the right to bear arms at the outset of their arrival in the new world. Raised during a CNN interview by Washington, D.C., publicist Larry Ward, one of the principal organizers of the Gun Appreciation Day rallies staged Jan. 19 and a staunch defender of the NRA, the comment seemed to those unfamiliar with such thinking like material culled from a dark stand-up comedy routine.

        Far from being funny, Ward’s view is part and parcel of a simplistic and embittered fundamentalism that has dominated political discourse on gun rights and the Second Amendment for decades and embraces the twin beliefs that any new gun control measures would not only be unconstitutional but also racist.

        Both beliefs are nonsense, but not without a kernel of distorted truth. And we can thank Ward and other like-minded pro-gun zealots both within and outside of the NRA for helping to renew public interest in uncovering the truth behind the nation’s gun rights history. Understanding that history, especially in the aftermath of the Sandy Hook massacre, is vital both to our efforts to achieve sensible gun control reform and to the more general task of demystifying the Second Amendment’s meaning and scope.

        Let’s begin the process with a sad admission: Our gun rights history indeed is stained with racism, commencing with particular force in the Colonial South, where blacks, both slave and free, were prohibited from owning firearms.

        In “The Hidden History of the Second Amendment,” a 1998 law review article that is only now gaining notice beyond academic circles, professor Carl Bogus of Roger Williams University School of Law in Rhode Island, reminds us that slavery was not just an economic and political institution but a “gigantic police system.” The primary means of enforcing the system were the “slave patrols,” armed groups of white men whose job was to ensure that blacks were not wandering or gathering where they were not permitted, engaging in suspicious activity or acquiring forbidden weapons. The old South, where slaves often outnumbered whites by large margins, lived in constant fear of slave revolts and over time, in places such as Virginia, South Carolina and Georgia, the functions of the slave patrols were taken over by state militias.

        Bogus also makes the claim—disputed, of course, not just by the NRA but by the current Republican majority on the Supreme Court—that the Second Amendment wasn’t designed to protect an individual right to bear arms, but at least in part to prevent the federal government under the newly ratified Constitution from usurping control of state militias and undermining their slave patrol duties.

        Although divining the original intent of the Founding Fathers is a risky and often dubious enterprise—and there are even some respected liberal historians who disagree with Bogus on the racist origins of the Second Amendment—the professor offers a compelling account that James Madison, the amendment’s author, had promised to support the Bill of Rights, including what became the Second Amendment, during the course of his 1789 campaign to win election to the House of Representatives. Madison’s motive was mainly political: to tamp down lingering concerns among some of his anti-Federalist slave-owning constituents that the union would end their way of life. 

        Whether or not Bogus is correct that the Second Amendment was the offspring of a pro-slavery election campaign promise, the controls against black Americans owning guns continued in the post-Civil War South with the adoption of the notorious Black Codes, often enforced by the Ku Klux Klan and other self-appointed vigilante bands. But slowly, as the nation moved into the 20th century and emerged from the Jim Crow era in response to both the mainstream civil rights movement and the rise of revolutionary black leaders like Malcolm X and the Black Panther Party, who began to call for armed self-defense in the African-American community, attitudes toward gun rights shifted, albeit temporarily, in favor of more racially neutral gun control policies.

        The NRA, which was originally founded not as an ideological organization but to promote firearm safety, threw its support behind the Gun Control Act of 1968, the federal law that still regulates the interstate shipment of firearms and prohibits sales to convicted felons, fugitives from justice, minors and inmates of mental institutions, among others. Within a decade, however, the NRA reversed itself as a core of hard-line gun advocates gained control of the organization and eventually transformed it into the lobbying juggernaut we know today, dedicated to an absolutist vision of gun rights and the Second Amendment, and the idea that gun control is racist.

        As extreme as that vision may be, the NRA and its allies and shills remain very good at what they do. And given the 300 million guns in circulation in the U.S. and the Supreme Court’s concurrence that the Second Amendment protects the individual right to own firearms, the campaign to reduce gun violence faces stiff hurdles, even if the Obama administration holds fast to its proposals to reinstate an assault weapons ban and expand background checks to gun shows, which account for an estimated 40 percent of all firearm sales. Still, those hurdles are not insurmountable, and there is nothing in the Supreme Court’s recent cases that would render reasonable limitations on Second Amendment rights unconstitutional.

        At a minimum, even if no meaningful gun control reforms succeed in the short term, we can and should dispatch to the dustbin the notion that our efforts to achieve such reforms are racist. Despite the ugly twists and turns in the history of American gun rights, and the undeniable racism that once made gun ownership a whites-only privilege, no one should confuse the present call for sensible gun control with racism. No segment of the American public appreciates this fact more than African-Americans, who suffer disproportionately from criminal violence and yet in the wake of Sandy Hook, continue to register the highest degree of support for gun control of any major ethnic group.

        Sentiment: Strong Buy

    • As I've said before, I can support common sense efforts to reduce gun violence - which is much broader then simple gun control. Unless we focus on these broader efforts, we'll continue to read stories like the one below out of Chicago.

      "Chicago authorities say seven people were killed and six wounded in gun violence in one day.

      Among those killed Saturday was a 34-year-old man whose mother had already lost her three other children to shootings. Police say Ronnie Chambers, who was his mother's youngest child, was shot in the head while sitting in a car."

      Sentiment: Strong Buy

    • Include severe penalties for anyone committing a crime with a gun and for gun trafficers and straw buyers.

      If I want to buy a box of Sudafed, they take my drivers license information. I know that Sudafed isn't a constituionally protected right but I think we can do back ground checks and have a wait period for guns. More complicated would be a title system like we have for autos so that the owner and wherabouts of all guns is known. All these sound nice and may help a bit, but we are once again focusing mostly on the law abiders.

      • 3 Replies to theresnobeachhere
      • Beach, call me paranoid if you want but for the government to know the ownership and whereabouts of all guns is not a good idea. That is exactly a major concern of gun owners who feel the government's eventual aim is confiscation. I for one, know many who would never comply. The result of that would be to turn ordinary law abiding citizens into law breaking criminals. The numbers could be staggering. I know something needs to be done to keep firearms out of the hands of the mentally challenged but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. there are serious ramifications if there is overreaction. It looks to me like politics are alive here as well.

      • Sorry but you guys seem to be forgetting something....................."the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." You seem to be recommending the Constitution be ignored. There is a method for amending it but that is also many. I understand the dilemma here but if you look at places with strict gun control laws they seem to be ineffective. The Supreme Court has recently upheld the 2nd Amendment and I seriously doubt Congress is ready to pass new legislation. Nice try though.

        Sentiment: Buy

      • Theres - what you write makes sense. There are already severe penalties for those committing crimes with guns, jails are overflowing. However, straw buyers and traffickers should be locked up/ thrown away. Part of the problem is that the ATF is toothless, they are mostly powerless, can't track gun purchases, monitor gun shops but once a year (per law, and can't even keep records, have the resources to do this once every 17 years due to being understaffed).

        The guy I mentioned in my posting was buying AK-47s, as many as he could, from multiple gun shops. He only was caught and is looking at gun trafficking charges (5 yrs jail time), because one gun shop owner thought it was suspicious buying multiple AK-47s and alerted the ATF. That is not a good system. The guy was clean, no record, nothing that came up, just that he was running all over town buying these guns and was selling them to people in parking lots.

        Now we have people running around with these damn guns in my city with who knows what nefarious reasons.

    • Not whining not, but believe a better start would be to create a national database of people who are mentally impaired that would be accessed when background check is made. The real question is, how can we stop the recent tragedies and still honor the 2nd Amendment. I believe most gun control advocates have a different agenda and right now are over reaching.

      Sentiment: Buy

      • 2 Replies to dickw3939
      • Dickw- I agree. The real question is administration of such a thing. How about, if you get on it, how do you get off it if you are well or where placed their my mistake. Much fear about our Gov administrating such a thing.

        I think limiting the amount of guns purchased at a time would still keep the 2nd Amendment completely intact. I question people who buy 5-10 guns at a time - that is scary.

      • Pols need to look like their doing something and jumped on Newtown. They're avoiding real work!!! I deal w/immediate answers-which is locks on what's out there already. Lanza didn't buy those guns, a database would not have helped here (though I agree-the mentally ill need to be watched). Cops should never give out their names-it works like the Lancet article-it goes around the world.

    • how about we get the housing market back, it was just reported down last month/ unemployment expected to go up and gas still above $3. when will this president get this economy going. 5 years and he doesn't have a clue. put people back to work so they can buy a home and they wont have time for buying guns.

    • nothing the government ever does is meant to "fix" any problem....

      the Federal government is a complete failure - for decades....

    • "1) Background checks for all guns, including long guns"

      When is the last time you bought a gun?

      When you buy from a licensed dealer ALL gun sales require a background check.
      Get it straight before posting garbage.