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Cedar Fair, L.P. Message Board

  • wareham2620 wareham2620 Aug 3, 2010 9:41 AM Flag

    Improved 2010 Second-Quarter

    -- Revenues increase $11.5 million to $275.6 million
    -- Attendance and revenues up through July
    -- Completes refinancing of debt - improves financial flexibility

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    • Goodness. What a bobble-headed bimbo.

    • THAT was easy. I rest my case.

    • Crud: Make that "master baiter".

    • holxshort: No doubt you consider yourself a master bater. Me too, only I would spell it differently.

      Last response.

    • Ahhh, a high school education. Thought so.

    • non_vac: Touche! I guess I need to run spell check if I direct a question to you. English is such a pesky mix of languages and spellings.

      "A: But those same covenants were known when you made your investment, right? And if not, they certainly were known to you when they financed (or refinanced,) right? Who's not doing their due diligence?"

      Experience is a great teacher and the teacher has been busy the last few years. No doubt I will make investing mistakes in the future but slacking on due diligence related to debt will not be one of them.

      holxshort: I sample information from many sources (even some I find abhorrent), do the compare and contrast thing I learned in high school and then draw my own conclusions.

      I cannot begin to imagine where you get your information. Based on your many posts I would guess from Don Rickles, but I'm not even sure he is still alive.

      Maybe you should check out NPR some time. One of the best and earliest treatments of the financial crisis I have found came from what is normally an entertainment show "This American Life". If you have the attention span to listen for an hour, you might learn something.

      I'm totally addicted to the science show RadioLab, though my local station doesn't carry it so I have to listen online.

    • You need to excuse his ignorance NV. He can't help being uninformed. He gets all his info from NPR.

    • Q: "If a company had 'no reasonable chance of ever paying it back', why would you lend in the first place?"

      A: Because I had no intention of holding to maturity, and had a bevvy of suckers, er, buyers desperate for yield (e.g. pension funds) that I could immediately dump it on.

      Q: "In the specific case of Cedar Fair, wouldn't some level of due diligence by the lenders related to new debt for the Paramount Parks aquisitions [sic] have been appropriate?"

      A: Those "dumb" original lenders made their fees ($50M if I recall), then more profit selling the paper to others. Not bad for a couple months' work. Who needs due diligence for that? It's the downstream buyers who should be checking things (they're assuming the original lenders are looking out for their best interests, LOL.)

      Q: "I have come to hate covenants because too many of my holdings have been nailed by them..."

      A: But those same covenants were known when you made your investment, right? And if not, they certainly were known to you when they financed (or refinanced,) right? Who's not doing their due diligence?

      Q: "...they have played games with 'the books' for far to long to the detriment of all."

      A: I agree. I'd fire everyone at FASB. My rules would be simple: no off-balance sheet accounting, everything mark-to-market, no outrageous assumptions for future liabilities (pension, OPRB), etc. No chance this will happen though, as it would require 98% of all companies to admit insolvency.

      Q: "And answer me this: on what planet does Cedar Fair 'deserve' a 5.5% interest rate on their amended credit facility?"

      A: On the same planet where 10-yr fiat-money treasuries pay 2.6%, issued by a government spending >$1 trillion more than they take in each year (see, there's plenty of head-scratchin' to go around.)

    • Wow! I was expecting to come by on my weekend stock board graze and see some kind of response to your post and Cedar Fair's earnings. I suppose there is not much to say, even for non_vac.

      Since I'm out and will stay out (as a unit holder if not as a customer), I'm not going to take the time to dissect earnings. I will say though regarding the debt that the RATE on the credit facility is amazingly good. Libor + 4 with a 1.5% Libor floor! As of now, that's 6.5% a pretty good rate for an essentially insolvent company.

      Of course, they are likely paying for some interest rate hedging - depending on the term that is used, Libor could easily climb above that floor with just one more crisis. I would guess the cost of a hedge on nearly $1B pushes their effective interest rate near or above 8%.

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