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RAIT Financial Trust Message Board

  • ki1gore_trout ki1gore_trout Aug 4, 2010 1:21 PM Flag

    Masters of Contradiction!

    If the RAS investors on this board have proven anything, it is that they are masters of contradiction.

    They say that RAS is spawning tons of cashflow with its decrepit repo'd properties, more than enough to service its bonds. They must also believe that by some diabolical scheme RAS has convinced its bondholders that it is about to go into liquidation, thereby persuading them to sell their bonds back to RAS "for pennies on the dollar."

    In the bizarre world of the RAS investor the bondholders, who should know the most about RAS, are acting stupidly. They are selling the bonds in a "safe" company back at "pennies on the dollar" !

    The RAS investors, most of whom know little or nothing at at all about the company other than what they read on MOTLEY FOOL (arguably the worst source of investor disinformation on the planet) imagine that they are smarter than everybody! They know more about RAS than do the bondholders who are selling out "for pennies on the dollar." They know more that the shorts who have received a steady income of over 30% per year since opening their short positions (i.e. shorts have been cashing out over 30% per year of their margined positions as RAS has deteriorated).

    The bond holders are selling their bonds for pennies on the dollar.

    The shorts are earning 30% per year.

    The RAS longs are taking it in the neck each and every day that RAS declines. Yet they believe that they are the smartest group of all!

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    • I know you don't like me spines. I am completely realistic about that. The thing is, I have a lot more verifiable things to say about RAS. Most people notice that.

    • Don't you know, ever post in fact support foulger. Every iota of detail and commentary regarding RAS supports foulger. This is what foulger thinks.

      What does that tell you about his bias in forming opinioning about RAS?

    • I read oldsoldats statement as satirical. You asked for something you hadn't found yourself and he was pointing out that if you thought he could do better research, then your must not be very good.

      I didn't particularly like his post, but I didn't find your real helpful either, and you'll note that I've specifically avoided replying to some things you've said that invoked me name. Sometimes it pays to read what others say generously (as in Ethison wasn't really saying anything bad about me when he said he didn't like providing information that supported one of my arguments).

    • when you don't know.

      Actually, OLD basically posited the question..."What, you don't know where to get that information?" Implying that everyone knows. Further he suggests that I don't do DD.

      Bottom line is that he doesn't know and he (and you) are making statements without any backup information to support those statements. I am interested in finding the source data. As an academic and a PhD you should appreciate my efforts to prove YOUR thesis. You shouldn't quickly dismiss the thesis just because it's a challenge to find the data and so quickly say....well it doesn't really matter anyway. This is you money on the line OLD's money too. It does matter.

      I can get AFN (now COHN) bonds quotes and historic information for free on These were for unrated corporate bonds issued by the same firm only one month after they issued the RAS bonds.

      FYI.........AFN was a REIT, just like RAS.

    • Are you having fun yet?

    • I don't think there is no clear answer to your question, and all oldsoldat said was he didn't know the answer but you can doubtless do your own research (that's not insulting; its just a statement of fact).

      A Google search doesn't show anyone who obviously offers free data on real estate bonds. There do appear to be providers of treasury and muni data, but its not clear that any of it is free. Somebody probably sells the data, but I don't know anybody who provides the data free. The best I've ever seen is recent data on prices and volumes from recent auctions. I've never been able to find historical data.

    • Maybe you misunderstand the question. Where can I get historic transactions on RAS bonds? I'm sorry to say that writing an insulting reply to my simple question doesn't enhance your credibility one bit.

      I looked on and they do not show RAS bonds. Are these bonds not registered securities?

      A prospectus will not show what I have requested from you.

      I do not own RAS common stock. I own lots of COHN common stock and bonds. I follow RAS and many others for fun.

    • Are you telling me you don't know where to look?
      Surely you would not have been silly enough, or careless enough, to buy RAS stock without first reading the prospectus.
      Guess Due Diligence means different things to different people.


    • Show me hundreds of millions in bond transactions in 2008 and 2009 and I will be a believer.

      Where can I see the transactions that you refer to?

    • Try to remember that the majority of current bondholders are NOT the original bondholders. When the chicken-littles were crying "the sky is falling" and prospects were most bleak, the bonds sold for far deeper discounts than they do now.

      Those who bought bonds then can double their money now, without having to wait for 2012. Why would they *NOT* take a 60% payout on bonds they bought for 30% of face, or less??

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