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VIVUS Inc. Message Board

  • rembrantvanrijn rembrantvanrijn Jul 12, 2010 10:24 PM Flag

    What people miss in all this is

    the savings to the American tax payer.

    Less obese people = trillions of dollars of savings in healthcare costs
    over the next ten years.

    Less diabetes.

    Fewer heart problems.

    United States Inc will save a fortune by approving these drugs ...

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    • now you are talking about solutions instead of accepting a bad situation...I like that.
      I was always taught that to solve a problem you get to the root cause and solve it that way. The health care cost are so high because people are living unhealthy lives. They live these lives because it doesn't cost them if we are all paying for their health care and they are not required in any way to stay healthy. ...I'm to tired to go on its late and I need my sleep!
      good luck to you android. Hope u pick up some VVUS tomorrow :)

    • Yes but you cannot have such a libertarian approach to it without giving real freedom to the individual during his life.

      For example you cannot tax him at 40-50% (when you add income tax, state tax, sales tax, sin tax etc etc), AND also force contributions to a social security fund which he may never be eligible to tap, AND force contributions to unemployment AND force contributions to Medicare... THEN tell the guy that, well, you ran out of money. No kidding! The government took it to fund all the things that people think we need.

      I'm not saying I oppose government (though I do in many cases) but, if I could allocate all my retirement and health contributions to a single fund I think over a lifetime I would make out a whole lot better than 3 times my contribution or whatever arbitrary number you want to put on it. I could be paying into Social Security and die before I can ever use a penny of it - and I cannot bequeath it to my children nor use it for health care nor anything else. They take it for the Ponzi scheme and then qualify where, when and how I can use it... and they could change the terms of it later too!

      I think you can't strip a man of his freedom of discretion all his life and then in the end tell him he didn't do it right.

    • fema_camp_coordinator fema_camp_coordinator Jul 13, 2010 12:48 AM Flag

      It would be terrible to be on that side, but it still seems like a necessary discussion to have. If the average cost for health care for each American is $7000 then everyone has to share that cost in some fashion. When it is 10,000 same thing. As long as it is paid for and not put on the credit card.

      Personally, quality of life means a lot to me. But there is also a factor of time versus costs. Ultimately money spent on one person will be money unavailable to spend on another.

    • I think the ironically is that people say they don't want govt to make that decision, which I absolutely agree, but then they want govt to pay for their decisions!!!

      I think that if someone falls into that situation, the person can do whatever he wants to do but he needs to go on with his own resources or something. I know, that's kind of harsh, but isn't that the ultimate in letting people make their own decisions. May be govt can have a cap on medicare payout or something to 3x your life-time contribution or something, I dunno.

      People will quickly change their decision if they realize that they actually have to pay for it out of their own pocket, but then it will be their own decision to do whatever they want to do with their own resources.

    • It is worth debating but at some point you have to draw a line, and people will fall just on one side or another, and how would you feel if you were 1 day or 1 dollar on the wrong side of that line?

      I really don't think this a decision Government should be making. It is very arbitrary. You cannot possibly calculate human potential - a 70 year old who gets chemo could live to 90 AND find a cure for cancer in that last 20 years. If you start doing math, you have to also factor in what that person contributes. It would be worth it to save Albert Einstein from Prostate Cancer at 85 but maybe not to save someone else at 70.

      Worse, did you see how the government kills people? The electric chair is more humane than the way they forced Terry Shciavo to die.

      If I ever end up in a vegetative state, I will give my entire estate to the person who blows my head off. If they let me starve and die from dehydration they are vile, evil sick people. Better to cut off their heads, shoot them in the brain or heck how about a heroin overdose so at least you are enjoying the last few minutes - quick and painless I say. It took 10 days for Terry Schiavo die from dehydration. What an awful thing to do to another human.

    • If the old man has paid his dues and has insurance treat him. It is his choice but most elderly would probably forgo the treatment but let them decide if they have the facilities to do so.

      I never said anything about not treating kids. The only one saying not to treat people is YOU.
      I'm not a religious person but you are on here playing god over money.
      would you give up your big house or big car to give the money to treat someone? oh mighty one with the fat wallet and people dieing around him.

    • fema_camp_coordinator fema_camp_coordinator Jul 13, 2010 12:32 AM Flag

      Did you not read my post about my father's last days?

      We are not talking about private insurance, we are talking about someone who paid into Medicare at a rate of about $2000 per year. Under your model everyone may have to pay $10,000 per year to provide all the care necessary. Are you willing to have your medicare taxes increased 5 fold to provide this sort of treatment? Are all Americans?

    • You are using the paint-the-opponent as evil argument strategy, I can do the same all night.

      Such a nice guy you are. Abandoning 100 needy kids to save 90 yo. It says everything about how you treat the future of this country.

      How do you like the way I mirror your argument?

    • So you rather spend $1M for a 90 yo on medicare than to spend on 100 needy kids. Do you have any children?

    • so the guy who's 90 and paid his insurance premiums all his life gets shoved to the curb. you are one hexx of a nice guy. do you have any grand parents?

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