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  • poreslob poreslob Mar 24, 2003 6:50 PM Flag

    I don't want to scare anyone,but

    if you don't know it already,there may be something in the universe that will be far more of a threat to human life that any thing man has ever done here.Just put in planet x in yer search engine.Then read.I might add that if any such thing occures,it will be by the will of God.GOT GOD????If not,next time yer out,stop by a local book store and pick up the best seller....THE HOLY BIBLE.You will soon learn the past and future of things to come.Guaranteed to comfort the soul once you have committed yerself to Jesus.Good luck and God bless.In the mean time,it may be good to own gold.

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    • Marketenemy, I have often used your scenario in verbal discussions, but have not seen anyone express themselves that well in print.

      Great Post!


    • It all comes down to faith in something.

      Science isn't going to give you any answers because the scientific method doesn't apply to situations where hypothesis testing is not possible. So the very thought of using science to prove or disprove the existence of a Creator is flawed from the start.

      What I find amusing is that the people who tell us we should question everything don't follow their own advice. Each one of us should start by questioning our very perceptions. Are we really here? Can we prove we all are, or might we have to accept the possibility that we are just dreaming? Maybe its just you that is dreaming and none of the rest of us are really here. How could you know the difference? You have to trust your senses! You have to have blind faith that your eyes, ears and sense of touch reveal the world to you as it really is.

      Of course, we know that they don't, since the world is mostly empty space ( according to the best theories we have as to how molecular structure exists ). So all the things that we believe to be solid are quite hollow at the molecular level. Already we have a giant contradiction between our sense and reality. What if you, instead of being an able bodied person walking around this earth, are merely a person in a coma dreaming this whole existence all by yourself? Convince yourself that this isn't possible and we can stop talking about faith. So accepting our sense at face value is a HUGE LEAP OF FAITH.

      Now if you agree with all that, you then have to wonder how did you get into this situation. Everything we have ever known has been causal. By that I mean that anything you ever witnessed was caused by something previous that enabled it to happen. You woke up today because you went to bed sometime previously. You could be born because your ancestors existed first. Walking back through time, ultimately we end up with a huge problem at the beginning. Nobody can explain how anything could have ever come first! In order that there be anything, something must have come first, according to the law of causality. Yet, the concept that there could have been something first pretty much violates the law of causality. So something just ain't right there!

      Nothing exists without something causing it to come into existence, and if that is true, then nothing could have existed initially either, since it would lack a cause. So now we have to make a SUPER HUGE LEAP OF FAITH. Either we have to admit that there could be a first cause, or we will have to place our faith in some other explaination.

      So if you aren't going to believe in God, then you have a lot of unanswered questions that most human beings feel a strong need to see answered. First, you have to decide whether any of us are here or not. Next, if you decide that we are here, then you have to come up with a rational explaination for how we came to be here.

    • By: sulith2001: >>>>> Your first, slickly worded comment on miracles is at odds with your initial statement that you are not aware of biblical contradictions of the laws of science. <<<<<<<
      God may have caused the solar rays to linger over Palestine for the specified time (prismatic effect). If God thus made the Sun to appear�from Joshua's perspective�to hang in the sky above Gibeon, it would be correct to report the event in such terms. The burden of proof rests with the skeptic; until he can prove there is no God, and that the Bible is merely a human production, he has no basis upon which to deny the biblical record of a miracle. To dismiss the Bible because it contains accounts of �impossible� events is inane. With God nothing is impossible.

      By: sulith2001: >>>> If you really believe that some dead and embalmed African was "resurrected" after three days there's a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. <<<<<

      Reinhard was speaking at a church in Nigeria on Sunday, December 2, 2001. A woman brought her dead husband, Pastor Daniel Ekechukwu, in a casket to the service, believing that God would resurrect her husband who was killed in a car accident on Friday, November 30 (three days prior). A team of pastors from the church insisted that the body be brought to the basement of the church with the plan that Reinhard would come to the basement to pray for him. The powerful healing anointing had already filled the atmosphere as Reinhard began closing the service. The deliverance team with Daniel�s body noticed that the corpse drew a breath! They began to pray and the body began to breathe regularly. They untied Daniel�s hands and feet and massaged his limbs. He was already embalmed, ready for burial and stiff from rigor mortis. It took several hours for Daniel to totally become coherent. His wife filled him in on the details when they got home. While Daniel was dead, he tells about the angel that greeted him and took him to paradise and hell. Then the angel said Daniel would come back to life as a last warning to this generation.
      Three months after God raised Daniel from the dead, Reinhard had him speak at a conference in Ilesa, Nigeria, in March 2002.

      As to your question about the geocentric universe concept:
      About 3,500 years ago Moses lived in Egypt. He was educated in all the learning of the Egyptians (Acts 7:22). The science of Egypt at that time had the theory that the earth was hatched out of an egg and that man came from worms in the slime of the Nile river. It is very clear that Moses did not get the information in the first book of the Bible from the science of Egypt. Where did this information come from?
      When the first scientists landed on the moon, they did not read scientific theories over the radio back to earth, but rather, they read the first chapter of the Bible. The first verse in the Bible states:
      In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
      Today we have some scientific theories about the origin of the universe, but they are based upon assumptions, conjectures and guesses. Each theory has its scientific flaws.1 Not one of them can be accepted. The history of science is a scrap heap of discarded theories. No human scientist was there when the universe was created, therefore, it is outside of human scientific knowledge. The Scientist who was there, when the universe was created, has given us His record of what happened. His book of history is the Bible.

      By: sulith2001: >>>>> Your comment that "man will resist with all his faculties the idea that there is a God" is a falsehood. <<<<<
      I stand corrected. Some men do not resist. You obviously do. There are only two kinds of people, those that believe in God, and those that believe they are God. You obviously fit in the latter category.

      By: sulith2001: >>>>> (I)d

    • I agree that parts of the Bible could not coexist with the laws of science. In my opinion, as with any religious writing, it is mans attempt to explain his perception of an event with whatever bias he happens to have at the time. You would have to agree that the Laws of Science have profusely changed over time. New "laws" are being made up daily, or should I say discovered daily, to replace the old laws. Someday I believe science may come up with a way to resurrect a person that has been dead for three days. At this point it's no longer a miracle it's just a fact of science. As for the earth standing still maybe when a rock the size of mars slammed into the earth and created our moon, the earth stood still? Take care, and buy DROOY.

    • Why, thank you palefire. Coming from you,it's a fully appreciated treat.

      Don't mean to come off as a crank or to offend, but every now and then one of these smug proselytizers gets my juices flowing and I am loathe to let them get away with their nonsense.

    • sterling_spurs:

      Re: "So, what evolutionary purpose is served by collective delusion (or collective INSANITY, as may be our case)?"

      If I understand your question correctly, I suppose it has something to do with tribal/cultural cohesion. It also keeps a lot of timid souls "off the street" in an intellectual sense. Unfortunately, many people are trapped into NEEDING "delusion" and could not function personally or socially without it.

    • So, what evolutionary purpose is served by collective delusion (or collective INSANITY, as may be our case)? If evolution progresses by deviation and mutation, is this a counter-weight to the instability that may be introduced by going too far too fast? Retreat to the safety of numbers, regression to the base of phylogenetics?

    • jermarge:

      Well, there was "Thoroughly Modern Millie" and now there is "Thoroughly Disingenuous Jermarge." Your response is a case study in smarmy evasions.

      Your first, slickly worded comment on miracles is at odds with your initial statement that you are not aware of biblical contradictions of the laws of science. Your challenge to me for evidence "to the contrary" for the Earth standing still is a transparent attempt at obfuscation. Your Bible alleges that it did, which does contradict the laws of science. BTW, if the Earth went from rotating at 24,000 MPH (at the equator) to zero MPH (for the Sun to stand still), it would cause more than transitory nose bleeds to earthly residents.

      If you really believe that some dead and embalmed African was "resurrected" after three days there's a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. Gee, "three days," just like the Pagan Sun worshippers New Moon "rebirth" that was co-opted by Christian mythology for Jesus' alleged "resurrection." You don't understand the Bible writer's "geocentric" Universe concept?" You don't understand why Galileo was tortured?

      Your comment that "man will resist with all his faculties the idea that there is a God" is a falsehood. The exact opposite is true. In all of history, a majority of mankind has been willing to surrender their reasoning power to superstition and fear; to worshiping various forms of imagined "gods." This is particularly true if they don't have the courage or intellectual honesty to seriously question irrational ideas pounded into them repeatedly in a malleable, trusting childhood. Most people cling tenaciously to such childhood installed religious beliefs and practice any amount of self-delusion or denial necessary to reject calls to reason. As an example, I'm sure it will be literally impossible for you to recognize the dishonesty of your response to my assertion that the Bible does indeed conflict with the laws of science. I do, however, recognize the dishonesty and don't waste much time on such people. I simply find them mildly amusing.

    • poreslob;
      regret to inform you that while searching for Planet X (very disturbing btw all those lopsided trajectories bearing down on us poor little earthlings) I might have stumbled on the real reason for our potential demise. Oh dear! What to do now�

      Your most urgent reply & advice required. Should mission be aborted?? Or shall we continue on?? Kind of scary territory would you not agree? Your perusal of link would be most appreciated. Wonder how this will affect POG tomorrow...

      Been kind of busy lately so not much participation possible. After quick perusal of site, not much regret. Will check later for hopeful reply and do promise to keep searching for more information relative to Planet X. Over & Out...


      p.s.: for those without a sense of humor, here is a hint ======> :)

    • By: sulith2001: >>>>> Could you please define a "miracle" in terms of the "laws of science" - miracles like walking on water or raising the dead? <<<<<<

      I believe that anyone with a modicum of intelligence would agree that the definition of a miracle is that it defies known science. I assume you are suggesting that nothing that defies scientific description has ever been witnessed?

      By: sulith2001: >>>>>> Joshua 10:13 and Habakkuk 3:11 - the Sun "stood still in the midst of heaven." <<<<<<

      I presume you have evidence to the contrary?

      By: sulith2001: >>>>>One wonders if you've actually critically READ the Bible you tout. Lev. 11:13,19 - a bat is a bird. <<<<<<

      A bat is a bird? Here is the verses you referenced: 13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
      14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
      15 Every raven after his kind;
      16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
      17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
      18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
      19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

      Perhaps you have an objection to the ancients not distinguishing between birds & flying rodents? Their classification of various creatures into different genre than at present, I hardly find to be earth shaking.

      By: sulith2001: >>>> Lev. 11:20-21 - some fowl have four legs.<<<<<<

      Some fowl have four legs? This passage references insects.

      Lev. 11:20 No insects may be eaten. 21; with the exception of those that jump <LB>

      By: sulith2001: >>>>>> Lev. 11:22-23 - some insects have four legs. <<<<<

      Some insects have two legs! Again, if your objection is to their 'scientific' classification of different genre, I think you have broadly missed the point. Lev. 11:22-23 locusts of all varieties- ordinary locusts, bald locusts, crickets, and grasshoppers- may be eaten. All insects that fly & walk or crawl are forbidden to you. <LB>

      By: sulith2001: >>>> How about the Bible writers' four thousand year old "geocentric" Earth under a solid "firmament?" <<<<


      By: sulith2001: >>>> How about the "resurrection" itself? <<<<<<

      Now that is a miracle that doesn't lend itself well to scientific scrutiny huh. Most recently an African was raised from the dead at a Christian rally in Africa. He had already been dead for 3 days & in fact had already been embalmed. Didn't hear it reported in the media huh? A close friend of mine's father was resurrected after having been at room temperature for 16 hrs. at the age of 9.

      John 12:37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:

      Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

      I too, used every possible excuse to deny the plausibility of the Bible at one point. As I studied the portions that appeared to be bogus and began to understand them in context, my attitude changed.

      It is very difficult. A man will resist with all his faculties the idea that there is a God. It precludes the man from being God. A tragedy indeed.

      It is good that you are concerned about the context of the anomalies you refer to. That is the next step after indifference.

      Good luck on your quest.

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