Wow, it seems there is a war between synopsys and
chrysalis over formal verification. See E-News 6/1/98. I
use one of the tools, but I won't tell which
To settle this independence thing they should square
off with an Independent AMBIT design (I do use that
tool ) and let the best tool win.
Synopsys is not strong at new technology but I can be
Formalverification is going to be a big revenue generation in the
future. Maybe Synopsys should just buy chrysalis
>>Are u on drug? or this is your first time
reading quarterly earning?<<
Now, now, no
reason to be insulting. I admit that I get confused at
times and make mistakes. If I used the wrong EPS I am
sorry. I ASSumed that since the price fell after
earnings that it was due to missing estimates and when I
saw the $0.50 EPS I concluded that that was the
culprit. I'm not experienced reading financial reports or
knowing what EPS figure to use. I appologize and I will
leave further financial analysis of SNPS to
Are u on drug? or this is your first time reading
SNPS beats estimate by 1 cent. The .50 includes the
related to Viewlogic merges. Excluding the charge,
came with .53.
Stocks don't always go up with
good earnings, look at CHKPF,
Simple. EPS estimates for Q3 was $0.52 vs. actual
reported EPS of $0.50. Price before announced earnings was
based on $0.52 and whether they would make those
numbers. Price today was based on $0.50 and how the future
now looks. Want to see what happens when a stock
beats EPS estimates -- take a look at what happened to
For the last 3 weeks, the SNPS trading indicators
pointed to a down trend. Decreasing trade volumes with
very slowly declining share price. Something had to
happen ... but I didn't expect a large
I don't know of any recent news except Synopsys
quarterly results (results were good, but nothing stellar -
may have started sell-off) and Synopsys announcing a
buy back of 5% of their shares so they can reissue
them as employee stock options and such. That last one
should have a net zero effect in my book.
see if my prediction comes true that SNPS will dip
under $35 (another buy opportunity) before some analyst
notices and upgrades and sends trading volume and price
back up. It sure is being cooperative so far.
I have done a great deal of work in the area of
Formal Verification so let me add my 2 cents.
believe at this point in time all the tools are not too
mature. They all have a long way to go. The best "today"
is Chrysalis by far. I have evaluated it against
Formality and the unannounced product from Mentor. Doing
netlist compares all tools seem to work and preform
similar. On RTL to gates there are big differences.
Formality gives incorrect answers, it says design are
equivalent when they are indeed different. The other tool is
too new and had too many bugs to complete the
Someday, the technology will become a requiremsnt for chip
design but today it has a great deal of promise only.
I think your "right-on" with one exception.
Formal. SNPS is going nowhere. They have OK capabilities
on Gate-Gate design but this is not where the design
methodology needs to go. You must compare RTL to gate and
Formality can not do this because they use the same
compiler as synthesis. Because of this major flaw the
product in the longterm is useless.
My feeling is
SNPS should purchase a formal verification company for
independence. They could keep them separate and feed them well.
There are many areas in formal that need lot's of work
but little companies can invest enough and thus we
As to ASIC, I just did a huge ASIC
with IBM and their tool of choice was Chrysalis. They
told me that Synopys will be supported but never used
because it can not find all design flaws.
is they buy Chrysalis now before they either become
overly expensive or languish in the startup mode
Synopsis was mentioned positively in yesterday's
Investor's Business Daily (New America) article regarding
Summit Design (SMMT). SMMT sells a popular front-end
design system which (I believe) requires SNPS's software
for converting into code. Additional business for
SMMT should also lead to more business for SNPS. I'm a
SMMT shareholder, also have been looking to buy into
SNPS as well. Any opinions here on SMMT, especially as
it relates to SNPS?
I partially agree with your analysis - some of
the SNPS self-developed products have been real
stinkers... I definitely belive that you are absolutely dead
wrong on couple of your analyses though.
Verilog sim - Failed effort bought VCS
Emulation - Couln't make money at it => sold off
Test Compiler - Lame except for DFT => bought
Behave Compiler - Initial failure =>
still looking for people who can really use.
Advisor - Failed - some marketing guy was was
their own bathwater
Jury is out or don't
Cyclone - Seems like some customer are using, but
cycle based sim market ever grow big, espec
for VHDL ?
FPGA - is FPGA Express making money ?
Seems like every Joe
and their brother is selling
it - Xilinx, Data I/O,
Cossap - What is success ? At DAC, it seemed like Cossap
was in use for every cellular phone system
not sure if this means lots o
Formality - Though reviews are mixed, I still
is knocking the stuffing out of
Chrysalis and maybe
Abstract, based not just on my
opinion, but on what I
see from LSI Logic, IBM ASIC
and NEC => Maybe it's just
better for big
designs ?? Given that Formality has
entrenched dedicated company with 4
yr. technology lead
and dominant market position, I'ld
pretty good (though they still may surprise
Timing - As a designer,
using PrimeTime over Motive is a
dream come true.
Motive was always very clunky but
accurate answers. PrimeTime gets the same
(almost), but is lots easier to use. It would
a winner with or without Motive purchase.
glad that SNPS offered upgrade path since our team
would have forced our management to buy Primetime
time in the next year anyhow.
In my books
a split decision..
ps - I think some real
dog products were also acquired
VSS -bought from
Cossap - was acquired I think, thus destroying your
Emulation / Arkos was bought as well
mixed bag - some lame, some great.
Nobody has a true formal verification product
yet. If you look at the scholastic world and their
work on formal methods, the potential is
mind-boggling. Watch out traditional verification tools! The
products Synopsys, Chrysalis, et al sell right now are the
simplest of tools that they can call formal verification
tools... All Formality does is functional comparison of 2
netlists. Whoopie... And it doesn't even do that
Now if Synopsys comes out with or buys some *real*
Formal tools, I would be long-term bullish. If I'm
right, the formal verification tools will expand in
capability, grow a market and the simulation guys will start
I saw the post about Synopsys' home-grown
failures and bought successes and I agree - same as with
CDN. If I look at the hot tools SNPS has, most were
And the post regarding Abstract; they are a startup
backed by 2 venture funding groups, one of which is
Intel. They look promising but probably won't be public
for a while.
If anyone hears of a publicly
traded Formal Verification focussed company, please let
me know - I have some money ready.
SNPS, I hope they break 50 and prove me wrong, but I've
already sold off most of my position (back at $45+). The
stock I have left is all covered by profits. Although
the analysts still seem bullish, I am waiting until
SNPS gets under $35 again to start reaccumulating.
Hope I get away with it one more time. I figure
eventually they will break $50, but not this time...
trending is downward, MACD and Stochastic charts looking
like it will continue down...
But as I've said
before, all it takes is some analyst to change a
recommendation to send SNPS up again or downward even faster...