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Synopsys Inc. Message Board

  • edaguy_2000 edaguy_2000 Jul 20, 2000 1:54 AM Flag

    Synopsys prospects

    Here is a point of view of a person who has
    worked in this industry for a while:

    1) While
    Synopsys has had a stranglehold on ASIC synthesis in the
    past, the market is changing as follows:
    - in the
    FPGA synthesis area, a startup is cleaning Synopsys'
    clock, and FPGA synthesis is supposed to grow as today's
    FPGA rival yesterdays ASIC in size
    - this same
    startup will launch a ASIC synthesis product which will
    be superior to Synopsis, 10X faster and LOWER in
    price. What will happen is that a) customers will knock
    down Synopsis ASP b) buy fewer Synopsis licenses c)
    Synopsis will lose market share in ASIC synthesis. This
    will not happen overnite, but in 2 years from now
    Synopsis could easily lose 25% market share and in 4 years

    2) Cadence offering Synthesis at low price - people
    do not buy CDN synthesis but use it to knock down
    Synopsis ASP. (av selling price)

    3) Synopsis has
    been great in past, but it may have peaked, even in
    terms of technology
    -in simulation, NC Verilog has
    caught up with VCS and is even faster in some cases, so
    there is not big technological advantage to Synopsis _
    I do not see it gaining market share
    - In
    Synthesis I see Synopis losing market share in future
    because of above discussion, but also fact
    Synthesis without link to P&R is not a viable solution for
    tomorrrows ASICs. In this market there are multiple players
    besides CDN and SNPS and it is not clear who the winner
    is. One cannot assume just because SNPS has the pure
    Syntehsis market, it will prevail in this area. Over a
    dozen startups are betting that they can take away
    dollars from SNPS.
    - In P&R Synopsis has been a
    non-entity. With EPIC they got some good tools, but many of
    those people are leaving to seek bigger bang elsewhere
    which typically occurs after an acquisition

    for CDN, things are not as bad as some people seem to
    think on this board. They have equal product in
    simulation, and they have very strong product line in PCD
    (ORCAD) and in emulation (Quickturn) which are both doing
    well -where SYnopsis has no presence. The ASIC P&R
    area they have lost their stranglehold of past years,
    but CDN mgmt realizes this and getting back to good
    shape for the company does not require regaining market
    leadership there - the PCB/Emulation sales far exceed their
    P&R revenue. Also CDN is diversified into methodology
    services and Design services

    I would say, in

    in near term (3-6 mos) CDN is less risky than SNPS.
    CDN may not gain more EDA dollars market share, but
    will not lose it either.

    in long term, SNPS
    will not be the dominant EDA player it has been
    because its Synthesis leadership positon will erode. It
    may still comeback because it is oversold, but do not
    expect it to be the guerilla it was (CDN was also a
    guerilla one time ago). SNPS will lose EDA dollar market
    share. SO beware of looking at Synopsis just based on
    historical financial/market data.

    EDA is cold and
    networking is hot - lot of people have left EDA for .coms
    and NETW companies. The .coms have fallen and the PEs
    NETW may not last 5 years from now. The EDA tool
    licensing revenue model is suspect and these companies may
    never have spectacular growth and PE but this is
    absolutely an essential industry enabling the CSCO, EXTR etc
    to design their stuff.

    Many engineers are not
    very stock market smart and risk taking and especially
    the junior ones will not feel excited to join a
    company because it is at 52 week low - they will accept a
    job across the street where the stock is at 53 week
    high. Let us face it, in spite of all the msg boards
    etc, most people in stock market buy high and sell low
    (individuals). Over last few years with teh run up people have
    been lucky to buy high and sell higher, but most
    people are not suited for risky turnaround plays which
    is what buying SNPS stock or joining SNPS

    SortNewest  |  Oldest  |  Most Replied Expand all replies
    • A JOKE!!!


      SNPS Wisper : 0.65 !
      Estimate = 0.63 (based on 7 analysts')

    • Is Synopsys going to announce earning s this wee? Thanks!

    • Don't forget it's really This is an EDA company that claims to make superior tools yet needs to resort to ".com" to get attention. How pathetic.

    • If edaguy is counting on Synplicity to be a
      challenger to Synopsys, he's should look at Synplicity's
      recent S1 filing. Looks like they will only be able to
      compete by losing money faster than they do today. What's
      facinatign is that they are positioning themselves as a
      "software supplier to the internet industry", rather than
      as an EDA company. I bet their IPO drops through the
      floor once investors figure out what's real.

    • Berndt Braune was formerly one of the @$$wipes
      GMs from Mentor who thought that selling the Meta
      emulator that infringes on QuickTurn patents might be
      defensible, good idea. Well Mentor lost with the ITC, lost in
      court and Bernde lost his job (funny how that works).
      His claim about former SNPS executives going to
      Get2Chip shows the same kind of truth-stretching that got
      him trouble with Mentor/QT - What Berndt really means
      is that some former SNPS guys went ot Meropa/G2C and
      were made executives.

    • It is strange to see a detailed forecast of
      Synopsys (written in previous msg Synopsis) from a person
      who isn't even able to spell the name. This board
      gets more and more the playground of people trying to
      manipulate others for personal profit and not to exchange


    • jumping in even though SNPS is at a multi-year low . Keep posting !!


      • 2 Replies to rasputin_2000_us
      • edaguy's post has some meat in it. However the
        issues have been around for sometime and the company has
        been doing fine. Synplicity has been suggesting about
        releasing their ASIC synthesis tool but if Ambit was an
        example, they have no chance of getting into this market;
        the buzz right now is Physical Synthesis. Ambit
        needed CDN's sales team to make a small dent;
        Synplicity's ASIC tool will have a tough time doing it alone.
        I do not think any business-savy CEO will go in and
        release it; too much investment for too little rewards.

        Regarding FPGA synthesis, true Synplicity's tool is
        possibly preferred ; however for most engineers the OEM
        Synopsys FPGA is good enough (and virtually free). The
        FPGA market is growing faster than ASIC but there is
        are performance limits to where it can go, simply
        because of technology constraints like power which limit
        the speed at which your best FPGA can run.

        Regarding cheaper synthesis alternatives, Synopsys is
        responding by offering term bases, subscription based and
        even the Internet model to offer a competitively
        priced alternative while allowing users to stick with
        the leader. True they will lost an account here or
        there, but the real battle is in the large accounts
        which are sticking with SNPS.

        NC-Verilog/VCS etc: Each tool's performance moves up in step
        function with each new release. However people do not
        migrate en-masse from one tool to another just because
        one tool performed better in some benchmarks. There
        is no compelling reason for people to move away from
        VCS. However, over the past couple of years when the
        verification crunch hit, a lot of people have invested in VCS.
        These customers are sticking with VCS and as the size
        and number of chips grow, will be buying more.

        Starting from the CEO, CDN is producing a lot of FUD;
        however they are yet to produce a credible tapeout story
        for the SPR product or get customers to say that we
        have switched from xxx to NC-Verilog. CDN would be
        willing to replace the xxx licenes for peanuts to get an
        endorsement like that. Synopsys has not done a good job in
        responding to the questions sorrounding the company. Part of
        the reason may be the basic company culture and
        ethics; people do not want to make statements which they
        cannot back-up. This is very visible in the press
        releases about the products: PKS announced nine months
        ago, yet to see a tapeout till now, Physical Compiler
        announced with two high end graphic customers talking about
        their experience and tape-outs.

    • From your analysis, I'd say if you ever worked in
      EDA it was about 1-2 years ago.

      1. Synplicity
      is old news. They were supposed to have a hot new
      ASIC synthesis tool over a year ago. Nothing happened.
      If they did have something that was 10X faster (with
      equal or better results which would be a requirement),
      why would should they sell it cheaper? Cheaper price
      is how you sell an inferior product

      2. Yes, customers can get the job done with either
      VCS or NC. However, with designers in a verification
      crunch, SNPS sells VCS in bulk and it is still #1 in new
      license sales (and growing market share).

      Yeesh, you really missed the boat on this one. Haven't
      you been reading for the last year? Synopsys is
      offering Physical Compiler which ties synthesis and
      placement together. Over half a dozen customers have taped
      out production designs done entirely with PC (unlike
      CDN who can only claim one partial tape out).

      The industry is re-tooling. IF SNPS can win the
      physical synthesis war (they have a 9 month lead so far),
      this should have a big impact to their bottom line
      around 12 months out. Your information is flawed and out
      of date.

      • 2 Replies to keope1
      • >2. Yes, customers can get the job done with
        either VCS or NC.
        However, with designers in a
        verification crunch, SNPS sells VCS in bulk and it is still #1
        in new license sales (and growing

        I'd check your numbers again if I were you, because
        the EDA analysts know
        that NC-Sim, NC-Verilog, and
        NC-VHDL have been selling in bulk for some time,
        customers are replacing wholesale their VCS licenses for
        even more NC licenses.
        CDN share is growing faster
        than the market in this area ==>> read: SNPS is

        going down and can't stem the tide.

      • positive territory. As for the posters on
        technical merit, please keep up the debate. As much as I
        hate to hear bad things (and even bad things that are
        false) I get a kick out of replies with corrections to
        falsehoods and new info. Thanks guys (or gals).


    • Synplicity, the not-so-young startup you
      mention by name in the FPGA synthesis
      area (and the
      one whose tools we use),
      has a big problem though:
      not liquid. And Synopsys has a pretty
      good hold on
      the FPGA synthesis distribution
      channels through
      the major FPGA vendors.
      So actually the most
      obvious liquidity
      path for Synplicity is to get bought
      by SNPS!
      If you were Synplicity, who would you
      to get bought by? They're not going to be big
      to IPO! Avant? Yech.

      Only thing standing in
      the way on both sides is pride.
      But engineers on
      both sides are smart people and
      would respect each

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