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Direxion Daily Small Cap Bear 3X ETF Message Board

  • imnadacrook imnadacrook Jun 18, 2010 10:03 AM Flag

    Why are “they” crooked, and not you?

    There’s something that makes no sense, this idea of crooked manipulation going on. Let’s suppose money is driving the market up, to protect against options liabilities about to expire. What is wrong with this? Anybody buying the market, with such intent, is taking risk, deciding that going long in a shaky market to protect their interests is better than the alternative of just letting the options expire they wrote, which are in the money, were they to do nothing. This is hedging. TZA, itself, was designed as a short term hedge. You’re hedging your bets, in a market you perceive as bad, buying TZA. Your desire is to manipulate others, for your advantage, in a market downturn, to take profit from those late into TZA. How does your self-interest trump anybody else’s, who has a vested interest in trying to prop the market up? How can you say you’re, therefore, not crooked, if “they” are crooked, since you also want to take somebody else’s money, wishing for your gain and their misfortune? Maybe think about this a little, next time you accuse a market not going your way and other people freely buying or selling crooked. Is it simply anybody with more money than you is crooked, bottom line?

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    • The market manipulation I am referring to is the U.S. Treasury and the banks, which they now own, buying stock to prop up the market and maintain a perception of economic recovery.that is what this is all about. the government is using everything at their disposal to resurrect the economy, which since so many's peoples savings and sentiment is now tied to a rising market, includes propping the market. Any sane person can see that the market is not reflecting the economy and taking all recent indicators, certainly not where the economy will be in 6 months. Since we rallied for 6500 to 11000, unemployment has not improved -only the losses have withered. nothing has been gained. If the market was real, we would be back at around 8,000 now since the predicted recovery has not materialized, and it should be pricing in a chance of a double dip recession.

    • It's the same as saying "God is on our side", or "the war is just"... you know... everyone thinks s/he is on the right side, and I *KNOW* I am right on this. LOL.

    • hilarious, i do not have billions of tax payer dollars to throw around......"they" do.

      • 1 Reply to urdumdums
      • I would be first to agree throwing around taxpayer dollars is crooked, but this isn't the type of purported crookedness I was pointing out, rather the mere idea that big money is moving in the markets is crooked. And even throwing around taxpayer dollars, in it's crookedness, is risking money they are contracted to pay back. The bailout money was not free, preferred stock purchased and loans a lean on corporations' assets. The bailout was flawed, but your real beef is with the corrupt politicians in Washington who allowed structuring this thing as such, not those who were given legal, free reign to use that money however they see fit, "free market" capitalist beasts who are just doing what they do in the jungle most of America has been okay with, for decades. How many of you re-elect the people who are doing these things? A majority of you. It's like the horror of the oil spill being the evil BP, when you can't get enough gasoline to put in your SUV, so you can drive to the store to get a sixpack. You know what the fact of the matter is? It's always everybody else is to blame, all the way around.

    • Wrong! A market is for price discovery. Put call ratios,treasury flight to safety are Not conclusive to a rising market sentiment but are the reactions of people who can't completly withdraw funds from 401/pensions and other retirement vehicles without significant tax penalties. With out such funds there would be NO market...They have created a self serving source revenue. You are the #! Mark !#

    • Your rationale parallels that of the American voting public. The difference is that we are not propping the market up on fake demand. Shorts are a natural part of all markets. Shorting creates balance so that price determination can occur most efficiently.

      By selling puts and propping the market up so that those written options expire out of the money is about as crooked as it comes. These parties will only short the market after these expirations to make money on the downside as well. Those who own TZA are only spotting inefficiencies in the market. WE ARE NOT MAKING THE INEFFICIENCIES. Get that through your brain.

    • donaldwheeker Jun 18, 2010 10:22 AM Flag

      Fair enough.

      I guess you are right and Cramer and those speculating whats driving the market these days are "dead" wrong.

      Whats moving the market is the Euro...that is it...nothing else. Euro up, market up...Euro down market down.

      Is it manipulation...not really. But do not assume that by investing in TZA that there is anything manipulative about that. Is simply looking at the pure facts in front or our faces, like a VERY poor economic news and then hedging our bets on a down turn after a completely unfounded 15 month bull run...dont blame those who buy this ETF. In fact, I would argue that if you put the Bulls and Bears on equal footing here...those that are shorting the market or using the Euro to manipulate more gains are more manipulative than those betting on a downward cycle...which by the way Is-IS-IS happening here.

      I just want to get that clear here. I here all the pundants saying that the economy is heading south. Cramer, out of all blind bulls even said so himself last night...that the market should have given up 250 yesterday but the market manipulators took advantage of the Euro to push it higher.

      When the market goes down..its not manipulation. And when it goes higher its not always techinicals.

      Market get manipulated each way. Its the way of the world. And yes, when the market loses a few thousand CAN be technically sound as well.

      • 1 Reply to donaldwheeker
      • "But do not assume that by investing in TZA that there is anything manipulative about that."

        No, I didn't even intend to imply that, was rather just pointing out the hypocrisy of these people posting "9/11 Truther" type garbage, as if there's a visible invisible hand, these things having no basis in reality. The fact is, not even the U.S. government has the resources to manipulate world market cap, the scope of it far too large to throw some billions of dollars at, good money after bad, and expect lasting impact, even if such as Ben Bernanke were trying to be some purported wizard behind the curtain of stock markets, which you may be surprised to know he doesn’t aspire to be, is, at minimum, much more intelligent than this. The market, itself, will resolve to the state of the times and the psychology behind the times, fear will ultimately trump greed, and self-interest will rule. Where that drives things, I'll leave it up to the brain trust here to ponder. Actually, I was merely trying to clear some of the garbage out of peoples' minds, who waste their energy on exotic theories with no basis in reality, and therefore are deluding themselves and all their thinking, which negatively impacts financial acumen. But the old adage remains true, that you can lead a horse to water, but can't make him drink. People will believe what they want to believe, even if there’s not a scintilla of truth in it. I would hate to believe half of what is said here, for just being a person so confused and adrift, in lala land. Anyway, appreciate your comments and their intersection with truth and reality, your well-founded ideas and post.

    • Spot on...

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