Compared to IP & RKT they are both now much smaller players. PKG has been investing in their box plants. GP has been investing in their mills. It will be interesting as smaller players, how the strategies work. In the past containerboard was sold, on the open mkt, below what it was sold to internal plants and boxes were sold at mkt, some w/mill support. It's a new age, which IP & RKT may have the power to define.