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  • System_Architect System_Architect Jun 27, 2003 4:35 PM Flag

    FIRE the management team

    They tell you not to sell while they sell automatically. Take a look at the insider trades on ANY stock website you want. All you will see is options being exercised and immediate sells, followed by other selling and more selling.

    If PSFT insiders think the ORCL buyout is so bad, why are they selling MILLIONS of shares? Clearly they do not think the company is worth holding on to.

    Think about it ... do they really have YOUR best interests at heart? or theirs!

    SortNewest  |  Oldest  |  Most Replied Expand all replies
    • Alucard_ax,

      Are you really so foolish to believe that people do not own shares until they post on this board? Go back into the 1990's and look at posts back when PSFT hit $56/share and Duffield was still firmly running things into the ground. You don't do much homework do you boy? I have bene long on PSFT for a very long time, since 1995 to be exact. However, ignorant people like you that jump to conclusions based on no facts whatsoever, and just their own delusions, are why I stopped posting to the board, and stopped reading all the nonsense. True, when the Oracle bid came in, my interest in PSFT returned, having written those shares off to collect dust. So I returned to the board only to find that not much has changed.

      There are still many who believe in PSFT like a religion without any business sense. They seem to maintain the delusion that if they are "loyal" it will be richly rewarded. They also seem to believe that anyone who does not think as they do is either a con-artist or a person looking for a quick-buck. You are wrong on all counts.

      So yes, I do immediately recognize the same short-comings of posters I see today, that go all the way back to 1995 when shareholders had firm belief that the stock and company was on the rise (I was one of them way back then, but I have since learned - unfortunately, many others have not).

      So stick a sock in it boy, all your assumptions are wrong.

      As for the stock going back to $13, it won't happen until the buyout offer is officially dropped. It would be incredibly ignorant to think that the stock would tank while a tender offer was still out, and yet to be voted on, and had been increased once already (not for the last time either I would expect). So to proclaim that it would return to $13 on just the expectation of the buyout not going through would be to prove you know nothing about the stock market, buyouts, or anything else financial. Oracle could simply keep buying shares at those prices on the open market, until they had bought up the entire float. If they had not gained a controlling interest, they would be dangerously close - but in any event the stock price would not drop - not while there is someone trying to buy the entire company.

      SO, Mr. long term investor, I would think that you must own shares longer than I, so please show me your trades that go back older than 1995. Otherwise, run along.

    • Shares back to 13$ if the deal failed is your assumption. But there is others that you should look at: since orcl raised its bid, the price did not reach 19.50 making it looked that the market does not beleive that the deal will go through. So, based on your assumption, the price should already be around $13 don't you think? Also, based on many analysts and ERP market experts, PSFT/JDEC merger will, in mid to long term, benefit more than what orcl is offering meaning that in a not so distant future, the share will be worth more than 19.50. As a long term investor, you should be weighted those alternatives too.

      As to know if you are long or short, i can see that you started to post on this board just after Oracle made its bid. Calling everybody idiots, ignorants, stupids, etc. in most of your messages. Base on those informations, you're most likely someone desperate to make a quick few bucks than a real long term investor.

    • Consider these factors and IMO PSFT is a flaming hold/buy.
      1. Money talks and Larry has it. Expect another offer.
      2. Approximately 1/2 of the PSFT shares are controlled by institutions which have larger stakes in ORCL than PSFT. These entities will decide on the merger based on what is good for them overall. ORCL needs PSFT so throw them in the ORCL camp when the votes are counted.
      3. PSFT is being hurt big time by the threat of a takeover. Who wants to spend millions of dollars on a company that may be defunct in a few months. Even the money back guarantee can't work in the software environment.
      4.PSFT is looking for a white knight. There are several other companys in the mix who would benefit by gobbling up PSFT. I favor MSFT which has more cash than good sense and has an appetite for almost anything close to their lines of business.
      5. Forget DOJ. This is a red herring. Stall tactic and nothing more. Larry can get his way here by simply committing to divest of a few things which will make DOJ go away. It is ok for PSFT to gobble up Edwards but not vice versa. BS.
      In the end, someone is going to get PSFT and the price will be over $20 per share. I am going to hold on tight until then.
      Bottom Line: PSFT can't let it shares wallow around in the $17 range

    • "If the company is so near and dear to the hearts of insiders, then WHY SELL MILLIONS OF SHARES AT ALL? UNDER ANY PROGRAM? Apparently it does not mean quite so much to them if they had ALREADY REGISTERED TO DUMP MILLIONS OF SHARES."

      PLEASE! show me the "millions of shares" sold since the beginning of June (they didn't know Ellison's ego would strike anymore than we did) by any insider and I'll post a personal apology 100 times and dissapear from the message board for good.

      Maybe I'm slow but try as I may I can't come up with anything that can be interpreted as you describe. If I'm missing something that is obvious to everyone else all I can do is offer my sincerest apologies for my ignorance.

    • alucard, are you really that stupid, or just pretending to be? Do you really not understand the difference here or are you just making an argument because it supports your point of view? The rule was specifically enacted to defend against allegations of insider trading (e.g., they knew the stock was going to tank). It has nothing to do with a hostile takeover attempt such as this.

      Once the information is made PUBLIC, then the insiders can do whatever they need to. To pretend they cannot is sheer ignorance. Call your broker and learn something about stock trading.

      What the rule you are quoting is referring to is selling, and selling EXTRA beyond that rule is what was discussed in the article referenced. It has NOTHING to do with suspending the plan based on NEW PUBLIC INFORMATION.

      But, you know what, lets put that aside for a minute since you don't want to listen to the truth. Let's look at it a different way.

      If the company is so near and dear to the hearts of insiders, then WHY SELL MILLIONS OF SHARES AT ALL? UNDER ANY PROGRAM? Apparently it does not mean quite so much to them if they had ALREADY REGISTERED TO DUMP MILLIONS OF SHARES.

      You are too stupid to even waste time on. A fool and his money are soon parted. Such will be the case with you. Did you not notice the run from $13 to $20? Do you think management accomplished that? What do you think is going to happen if the buyout falls through? Back to $13. What happens when PSFT disappoints yet AGAIN on earnings? Back to $10 and single digits. Then maybe you will have learned. At least with a buyout you make money. Unless you are too stupid to figure that out as well.

    • The insider sellings tell you they do not believe the $19.5 offer will work, otherwise, they can just hold on those shares and get better price than what they can get now.

    • Did I get your attention? Don't you read replies to your posts? Folks have been very kind trying to teach you something but instead you just keep repeating the same irrational BS!

      Go back and look at responses to your earlier posts and PLEASE try to learn a little.

      • 1 Reply to tired_for_sure
      • I do read replies when I have time, I do not spend the bulk of my day here as some do. What exactly is it that you wish for me to "learn". Please, enlighten my dumb ass.

        Maybe it is "Gosh, all executives sell, it does not mean anything, even though they are urging everybody else not to sell while they continue to sell shares". Nobody is that stupid.

        The idea that I am pushing "scandal" is a joke and it is surprising that you cannot argue against my very valid point - about insiders selling. If they were serious about keeping the company, they would have halted their selling programs immediately. I guess they don't have any problem selling shares, just not to ORCL - because that would ruin their gravy train.

        It is clear that you have no idea what it means to be a shareholder. That means you are part OWNER in the company, and management WORKS FOR YOU. They need to do what is in your best interests, or you FIRE THEIR ASSES. If you owned (100%) a company, and found out that your manager was buying from a buddy, and not getting the best value for you - running up costs unnecessarily to help himself out and his friends - you would fire him immediately (if you were intelligent). This is no different.

        Figure it out. It is you who needs to learn.

    • You don't get it, do you?

      Lots of insiders sell on recurring pattern to avoid being sued by idiots like you.

      This news was released last week, and then this week, and guess what? With the Oracle lobbying, it will hit the stand next week too.

      I think 5 or 6 peoples already explained it to you but you continue to play the "scandal" card the same as you did last week and the same as you will probably do next week. How pathetic...

      Maybe if your god Ellison would have done the same, he would be in less trouble now. See for yourself :,7204,6641869%5E15330%5E%5Enbv%5E15306

      • 2 Replies to alucard_ax
      • Actually, it is you who "doesn't get it". Do you not see the hyprocacy of them selling (even if it is automated or regular selling), then telling everybody else not to?

        What part of that don't you get?

        As for your mis-statement about "your god Ellison", it simply shows your ignorance. It could easily have been Gates/Microsoft, or IBM, or anybody else. It has nothing to do with Ellison (except it is interesting to note how you jump to conclusions without any information to back it up).

        The same problem would exist if it was IBM in a hostile takeover attempt, if PSFT management was selling and telling everybody else not to. If the company was so dear to them, then HALT THE AUTOMATIC SELLING PROGRAM. It really is quite easy to do.

      • Hey Alucard

        How did the US press miss that one?

        Makes you wonder?

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