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SPDR S&P 500 ETF Message Board

  • sensibleinvestor2 sensibleinvestor2 Mar 22, 2011 7:48 PM Flag

    Regarding the futures, REMEMBER THIS:

    Never short a dull market. Your shorts will eventually
    get smoked.

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    • there is so much here to address, lol...write codes? who cares about that? as soon as the order is routed to globex it become what is the point about the "area 51" oder software? lol....also who cares if the market is in contango or backwardation...its the same trade. if you trade crude you trade crude....keep it simple my man

    • Good Gawd Man, if it's not clear to you from what I've said that I understand EXACTLY what you were doing, then my comments about the effects it had on your ability to think are not a joke.

      Try this: I don't think we're in the pits anymore, Dorothy.


      Go ahead, take the last word, come on, just do it. I promise I won't respond to you in this thread again.

    • you don't understand what a pit local does do you? all we do it provide liquidity and speculate...nobody cares about strategy or long term price distribution, we make our $.40 to .50 per trade with some size then go home at 1:30...stop freaking out, my sides are hurting..

    • ==>Plus after the 4th line in your post my head spins

      That's what I thought. You trained yourself to have the attention span of a gnat and to understand nothing more complex than effing hand signals. All that noise, visual interference, and BO kills the ability for actual thought.


    • you are a complete idiot, you can't remember what you even type. Plus after the 4th line in your post my head spins. you head must spin when you write your post....very entertaining, keep it up..i am truly loving it all, MOSES

    • I have to admit, I'm still curious as to why you mentioned dividends in your thing about "nobody hedges with futures" post. Surely you realize there are no dividends involved with futures?

      Ah, forget it.


    • ==>nobody hedges with fututres[sic]

      Dude, what's with all the "everybody does this" and "nobody does that"? As a pit scalper, yes, YOU had to follow the crowd, but there were orders being filled in the pit for guys who had more strategy behind what they were doing, I assure you.

      And why the heck do you make all these assumptions? I said nothing about hedging a futures position with options on futures, which is, I guess, what that post of yours is about (it surely has almost nothing to do with what I was talking about other than for using the word 'hedging')?

      Anyway, as for a stop, it costs NOTHING where I trade, but I'm not going to go into all the reasons those are generally for fools. If you want to accomplish the same thing, you write your own code to handle the necessary orders so they are not on anyone's system until you want them to be. (I know, you have no idea what I'm talking about, but I do, and it's not something you could even consider (if after all those years of pit noise, you are even capable of deep thought, your posts providing scant evidence of such ability). Dude, would you have even a inkling how to write a trading bot? Again, I do, and I have. (My training was not in the rules of effing over clients, it was in higher mathematics and computer programming (though I learned most of the programming through self study, and for what I'm talking about, simple arithmetic will suffice unless you're looking for inflection points, in which case simple calculus is needed)).

      Seriously, if you can't understand the difference between a herd of nuts in an open outcry auction pit and the way the stock market works in the age of HFT trading bots, you had definitely better stick to your buy and hold or your penny ante scalping.


      Now I suggest we leave this topic. Can we just agree to disagree on whatever else you have in the way of objections? After all, I have merely been relating some of the things I do and mostly in general terms --- apparently I am an outlier since "NOBODY" does any of this (although as for rolling contracts, I suggest you look up the WSJ articles I alluded to concerning contango in oil futures and how it was affecting oil ETFs, or just look at a chart to see that there is plenty of volume well before the day before expiration). Or not, just go through the rest of your life learning nothing, sticking to what "they" taught you back in the days of the dinosaurs.

    • for la_canard....a stop is only $5.95 and you can lower the cost basis at the same time when you reallocate.....keep it simple man, you don't need a series 7 to figure that one out, lol MOSES

    • nobody hedges with fututres, it is a unrealistinc Mad Money dream....if you had $400K and wanted to hedge the downside risk it would cost you alot of money. ($400K divided by ($250 x 1298) x 1.2 beta = approx 2 guess since I don't know the cost of a 129 put, is probably $4500 or more per is really fantasy island

    • le_canard_en_caoutchouc le_canard_en_caoutchouc Mar 23, 2011 12:25 AM Flag

      ==>if anyone wants to trade futures i recommend just connect to COMEX, CME etc....use your data you have now and mock trade for 3 weeks...see if you can make money and handle the short trading session and volalitliy...MOSES


      That's sound advice. I was only suggesting that those who are already actively trading index ETFs might benefit from access to ES, TF, and NQ during hours when the stock market is closed. And I certainly wasn't suggesting anyone use the available leverage of the futures market to trade in sizes beyond their means. As a result of index arbitrage, ES, TF, and NQ are no more volatile than their corresponding ETFs during the hours the stock market is open, so that is, shall we say, just another canard introduced by Mr. 7 Series. (Ya know, guy, George Costanza had first dibs on the name Seven.)

      If you're investing (which to me means you're long) and have no need for hedging, then you're better off just buying SPY and forget about futures. You don't collect any dividends being long futures, and you really don't own stocks by being long a futures contract (though the distinction may not be a big deal unless there's a market failure).

      Owning stock means you own part of a company or bunch of companies (crappy though many of them are, they generally have an earnings stream as well as some book value). By contrast, all you have with a futures contract is a promise to settle. That may not even be as good as the US Treasury's promise that if you take a $1 bill to the bank they'll be happy to give you another $1 bill in exchange. (That's big of them, eh?)


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