How sure are you that the industry isn't about to reach some disastorous point in the life of Title Companies? Are you still fundamentally bullish for the next 3 to 5 years?
Example of Foley over paying besides Hardees:
CKR purchased 10 Million Shares of SBRG at around $8/share (While Foley was CEO of both Companies). Last summer Foley started buying SBRG shares on the open market at around $1. When the price started to rise, he negotiated a deal to by CKR's 10 million shares at $1/share private placement. The shares of SBRG doubled to around $2/share within 3 months.
I think this one example illustrates a few of my points. 1) He has overpaid for more than just Hardees, 2) He benefited from his position as insider of two related companies at the expense of the shareholders of both companies (there are many more examples of this), 3) With Millions of dollars in salaries, stock options and other benifits (e.g. Private Jet) I don't see CKR and SBRG as Hobbies (example to follow)
FOLEY Holdings from Yahoo:
FNF 2.8M Shares @ $23.18
SBRG 8M Shares @ $1.93
CKR 3.7M Shares @ $2.18
You are current that at current valuations that FNF is a majority of Foley Holdings. However, if you look back to January of 98 when SBRG was at a high of $15/Share and CKR was at a high of $40/share FNF was a small holding. Based on the 98 valuations, CKR and SBRG were major holdings.
Your point that Foley is selling less than he receives in options is interesting. I don�t see this as a comforting thought from a shareholder perspective. You can draw a correlation between Foley redemptions from FNF and purchases into SBRG. From that analysis you could argue that SBRG is a better investment value (not my recommendation). Another note: Foley is not the only insider selling FNF.
Also Note that in Jan 98 CKR looked awesome. The PE was low sales were increasing everything was rosy. Foley and insiders knew better, but shareholders were in the dark. I realize FNF is a different industry from CKR/SBRG, but his management style is important.
FNF is on the way down. Only time will tell whether the current asset values and earnings remain as strong as they look today. History does have a way of repeating itself. I�ll check back next year. I do hope I�m wrong.
Could you provide the history of when Foley got involved in FNF and what he paid for his shares?
The long-term stock performance of FNF since Foley has been involved/control has been phenominal. The company is now #1 in its industry and is very profitable. How does that not qualify as an example of success???
It is comical when individuals compare CKR and SBRG to FNF. They are totally different. My own opinion is that the various "burger" businesses are nothing more than "hobbies" for Foley. The serious money is invested in FNF.
As far as stock sales it is very common for top executives in any company or industry to sell shares. If you factor in his stock options is it possible that he actually increased his holdings in the company over the past year?
As far as FNF is concerned (we really don't need to hear how Carl Jrs overpaid for Hardees) can you give us one example as to when they "overpaid" for an acquisition/asset? The purchase of Chicago Title was an absolutely brilliant move which added both profitability and market share at a very reasonable price.
I agree that's there's nothing in Foley's stock sales to indicate that he thinks this stock isn't going higher. He obviously just needs cash for living, taxes, and maybe an opportunistic fire sale or two. When you look at what he still has in stock and very profitably exercisable options in this company, what he's sold is pocket change by comparison. The bulk of his visible fortune is still in FNF, and I don't think it would be if he didn't have confidence in it.
Foley may be a better deal guy than operator but he's not a crook and he has taken some real problem companies-CKE, FNF and made them viable. In FNF he has built the most efficient title company in the business. You may not like the industry, but if you are going to play, this is the company to be invested in. CKE was a great story, but the strategy of rolling it out nationally via Hardee's was a horrible mistake. Foley sells FNF shares because it is the only holding with liquidity and something close to fair value. The guy has a lifestyle to support including vineyards which are romantic black holes.
Could you explain further? I'm confused how a company buying back shares impacts the sales of insiders. Doesn't the company buy back shares on the open market?
For an example of the sales I'm referring to I've listed SOME of Foley's sales below from the Yahoo Insider Trade List:
04/12/01 100,000 @ $22.00
11/01/00 20,000 @ 24.50 - 24.63
10/31/00 20,000 @ 24.50
10/30/00 20,000 @ 24.25
08/17/00 13,900 @ 19.00
08/4/00 22,000 @19.00
07/17/00 60,000 @ 18.50
05/31/00 125,000 @15.10
Please verify if any of these are not real sales. Again this is just a sample of one insiders activity. I did not see one direct purchase in the last year.
Compare that to SBRG and CKR insider trades (Where Foley also has major positions). He has been actively buying SBRG and he is aquiring new shares via stock option plan in CKR - minor amounts. Please do not take this as an endorsement of SBRG or CKR. My point is that Foley and Puzder have only sales in FNF and Purchases in SBRG?
I'm suprised by support of Foley when you consider his past failures. Again, I have not seen anyone post a solid example of his long-term successes (3 - 5 years). There are plenty of examples of Outstanding short-term performance in stock price 1 - 2 years with major dissappointment to follow.
Also, accumulating assets does not by itself justify increases in share price and huge stock option/bonus packages for the executives. Unless the increased assets are due soley to profits, it's just a shell game. Some one sold those assets and they must have believed that they got a good price. Foley has a history of overpaying for growth. Only time will tell.
As a shareholder, you are an owner of this company. If you own a company, wouldn't you want to review the resume, check references and past performance prior to trusting your company assets and good will to key executive. I've seen Foley's past performance and I would not trust him.
8 of the 9 were simple 144 trades or exercised option trades.
So! That infoformation doesn't tell you anything but the fact that the company is buying back 5 million shares does(April 25) does.
*As you look at the chart these three trades were the ONLY big trades as of late.In each case the stock went up at the TIME of the trade.Evidently not big enough trades to send a message to the little guys.
Yesterday, many people simply going into tech and some of the big names in the dow.Which FNF and the other title companies are not in.Although, FAF had a big run up at the end of the day to a gain of 4%.
I would tend to agree that Merrill Lynch would know more than a poster on a message board. But I find it interesting that you consider three trades in the 100K range huge buys and yet over look the over 1 Million Shares of Sell orders by the insiders of this company over the last year. Also interesting that the buys did not result in an increase in the stock price.
Don't you think the insiders know more about the prospects of this company than a brokerage firm (or an uneducated investor?). Haven't you seen Buy ratings dropped on stocks after the price dropped 80%.
For example, Foley sold 125K shares on May 2000 for $15.10. He continued to sell shares on the way up and down. You guys are kidding yourself if you think the insiders are just diversifying. Foley is not going to knowingly sell an undervalued asset.
I don't see any indication that this stock is going to $70. Interest rates dropped another 1/2 point yesterday and the Dow and S&P 500 are up over 2% yesterday and FNF is down. Someone knows something the posters on this board do not. The posters on this board have the current stats, but it's the future earnings that drive stock price.
Whenever someone posts a negative concern 5 posters come out in attack mode. I'm sticking to the facts and I started posting when the stock was in the high 30's. (check my prior posts). I have serious concerns that Foley, Puzder and friends (legally) rip off the shareholders of the companies they run.
When this stock drops below $10, will some of these posters do something about Foley?
The people at many of the firms you cited have been saying for a month or more that mortgage rates have bottomed and are moving back up. You need to read their reports better, and not just stop at the rating. You do understand words with more than three letters, right?