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Ballard Power Systems Inc. Message Board

  • MrFuelCell MrFuelCell Jun 24, 1999 9:58 AM Flag

    Toxicity of Methanol versus Gasoline

    Below is the response from Mobil regarding my
    questioning of their statement in the WSJ ad that methanol is
    more toxic than gasoline:

    "No, methanol is far
    more toxic than gasoline; a glass of methanol will put
    you six feet under. gasoline won't..Nonetheless we
    don't encourage any one to use
    these products

    This response came from

    Any expert opinions out there?


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    • Northwest Power Systems, Methanex and Statoil are
      co-operating on two pilot projects to demonstrate how methanol
      fuel cells can provide electricity and heat in a
      residential application. Check Northwest's web site for interesting work on methanol reformers, also
      a good video clip under the heading " video
      gallery". The PEM fuel cell stack is supplied by one of
      their "strategic alliance partners", unfortunately it
      is De Nora, not Ballard. Ballard appears to be
      facing serious competition in stationary power

    • I agree with you completely and appreciate your
      point of view. What I am investing in is a concept,
      what I like about Ballard is that they have the
      prototype. Buses on the road, and the support of the
      Canadian goverment. I also feel that they will be
      successful in their endeavor and bring the crumbs together
      to make a cookie. And your right! Starbucks coffee
      is the pits.

    • "did you know that Starbucks market value is more
      that twice that of BLDP". That is a sore point with
      me, since I think SBUX coffee is the world's worst,
      cheap and burnt tasting IMO. Nevertheless it did manage
      to sell $1.5 billion of the stuff in the last year
      and is inexplicably growing fast, so maybe that is
      why it has a large market cap.

      A better
      example to compare BLDP to would be Cummins Engine, which
      is to the deisel engine market what BLDP might hope
      to be to the fc engine a dozen years from now. Its
      market cap? Less than BLDP's, and its $5.5 billion in
      sales are today, not maybe 12 years from now.

      long as we remain in the financial bubble there will
      be crazy people paying crazy prices for some stocks.
      It will never be hard to find a company that is even
      more overpriced than the one you are looking at. By
      comparison to various internet stocks, what other companies,
      regardless of their merits, aren't undervalued?

      to hybrids, they may sound like a mechanics
      nightmare to you, but they are on the road and doing fine.
      By 2004 when fc cars are supposed to be introduced
      in theory, there will be hybrids out from every
      manufacturer, and accumulated experience with them will total
      millions of miles.

      That doesn't mean that they
      can't be supplanted by fc cars if the latter are
      better, but there is no reason to think that they will
      be. The gas mileage of hybrids is more than double
      that of comparable ice cars today, and they run on gas
      which is cheap, as opposed to methanol which costs (not
      counting taxes) twice as much as gasoline relative to the
      energy content. The pollution is not quite as good as a
      fc car run on hydrogen, but one run on methanol
      won't be zero pollution either.

      Hybrids won't
      require any government tax subsidies, nor any subsidies
      by car companies to change the infrastructure - so
      why will the voters let the government jam fc cars
      down our throats? Holders of BLDP had better feel
      comfortable that the product itself will be superior enough
      to find plenty of customers on its own - basing your
      hopes on politicians forcing people to buy an inferior
      product is a pretty weak argument, IMO.

    • pun intended..too much of a hurry.

    • Stock up on can goods and firewood.......Lets use
      paint as an example of how environmental regulations
      can dictate what is good for the human race as a
      whole. California and New York have been forced to
      remove all oil base paints from they're shelves. Soon
      you'll see the rest of the country following suit. Now
      latex paint has to step up to the plate. MS points out
      that people aren't that stupid, I disagree and thank
      god for the EPA. Hybirds sound like a mechanics
      nightmare, I wonder if they are going to throw a few
      squirrels (MS-did I spell that right?)under the hood too?
      and not that it matters but did you know that
      Starbucks market value is more that twice that of
      BLDP....Thank You

    • Epyx's reformer, from what I have read about it,
      is not fundamentally different from the technology
      that has been around for 50 years or more. It still
      involves heating up the fuel, runing it by catalysts,
      using steam, etc. Epyx's might be somewhat more
      efficient than others, or more flexible in its ability to
      handle various fuels, or somewhat cheaper to produce,
      but it doesn't affect the fact that reformers need
      lots of energy to run, which is why low temperature
      fc's (PEM, Phos Acid, and Alkaline) are less efficient
      than higher temperature ones (carbonate and solid
      oxide), which don't need any stinkin' reformers.

    • Blueflame answered the ?. I was pondering buying some stock in methanex but have some reservations with all the talk of the nanotechnology. Does anyone have advice on the subject.

    • Plug Power was mention for its stationary
      applacations in residental homes along with Avista lab and
      Northwest power systems. United Technologies appear to be a
      big contender also. However, Ballard dominated.

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