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  • reits_r_us reits_r_us Dec 7, 2012 11:37 AM Flag

    Get a clue

    Howie,

    I enjoy the discussions with liberal progressives who offer cogent reasoning, such as YBF, Ray, Randy(where are you), and others. They stay with the issues and away from ad hominem attacks( berating the poster). They argue the merits of their ideas and do not attack their opponents profession, ethnicity, family, income, or social standing.

    You have attacked most of these in order to do what? That's right! In order to set yourself up as"The Victim". Then, once established, in your mind, that you have attained this status, you have self justification to rail against the enemy(a message board's participants).

    This is pretty common with many in our society and it is key in Saul Alinsky's book, "Rules for Radicals".

    Just a couple (from Alinsky's book):

    Fourth and fifth rule: Ridicule is man's most potent weapon
    13 th rule: Pick the target...freeze it, personalize it, polarize it.

    Sound familiar? Most welcome cogent reasoning. Your main offerings have been attempts to attack, berate, and marginalize. Then you declare "unfair" when the expected angst occurs against such tactics. Reminds me of a belligerent child who continues to be rowdy in the car on a family vacation. Dad whacks the kid, and the kid cries, " UNFAIR!" You are that kid Howie.

    DocReits

    Sentiment: Strong Buy

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    • That has been the point I have been trying to make all along, that much of what is going with the left these days is social manipulation and in fact many are not doing it by accident or coincidence but rather are knowingly aware of what they are trying to do and as a result it is calculated and meant to be an intentional deception. Even though "Rules for Radicals" was written as a template for liberals to use to implement social change by social manipulation it is also enlightening for conservatives to read because it exposes their secret which is that to them the general public is perceived as their pawns to be manipulated for their own purposes. And then you have their followers who simply copy their methods because they think that they have learned them from worthy peers to whom they aspire and are actually unaware that much of the of what forms the scaffolding of their liberal infrastructure is nothing more than people whose only interest is power. Not that the conservative side is any different in this regard but it is important to understand what is REALLY motivating people if you don’t want to be used as their blind tool. And that goes for both sides of the political spectrum. Stop and think about it if you find yourself using catchwords that have been handed down to you. Is that how you want to be used?

      The pendulum in the US has swung so far that if you want to look for people who really need charity then you need to look outside the US. And I’m not talking about going to Africa and throwing bags of rice or flour off a truck and then driving off which only creates a population explosion that exceeds the capacity for their own farming capability to provide. I’m talking about giving people the tools they need to farm the land that they have in an environmentally responsible way and to encourage responsible family sizes that keep the population at a sustainable level that their available land resources can cope with. My favorite charity is Doctors without Borders.

      What we having going on in the US is a money grab and the tool to this end is political influence to gain favors to be given to only a select few and then make a minority of the population pay for those favors. Yet most of these people that get these favors are not destitute, they aren’t even close. In fact many of these favors go to government union employees, many of them making over $250k a year. Cities are going bankrupt because this corruption has become so invasive that 75% of their city budgets are going to pay the pensions for people who aren’t even around anymore and the life styles that these people are living in retirement are ones that most of us could only dream of.

      It’s getting out of hand but they get away with it because many of their supporters in this country believe that Democrats can do no wrong and are only out to do good but nothing is further from the truth because it is the Democrats that have been their allies and who have enabled this graft. I’m not saying that the Republicans are saints but when it comes to the massive government spending that is going on today, most of that has been at the hands of the Democrats because we all know that if the Republicans had their way these programs would probably get cut too much, too much for even my liking. However cutting too much is the least of our concerns today. We are so far from that possibility that it’s not even worth considering.

      You can harp on Republicans for a list of sins, which are many, but the biggest problem we have today isn’t their doing and thus as a conservative I can have little influence of the outcome because I don’t vote for the people who are creating this mess anyway. It’s up to Democrats to get this situation under control yet I fear that their leaders have them in the bag and thus my concerned is that we are doomed.

      • 1 Reply to raybans2
      • Rayb, 5000 word post unnecessary. This is the gist of what you said.

        "I am so selfish that I am mad because 20 cents out of every paycheck I make goes towards food stamps. How dare poor people think they have a right to food. However, I am more than happy to spend thousands of dollars on my dog, because she "loves" me."

    • You are quoting Saul Alinksy? Do you know how that catapults into into the first circle of screwball hell? The only people who know about or read that obscure whoever he is is right wing fanatics.

      You are quoting Saul Alinksy? The first time I ever heard that name is from Newt Gingrich. No one knows or cares about Saul Alinksy except rightwing fanatics. Itslike that fellow in Orwell's 1984 that was uses as a focuspoint for projection of everything foul and wrong.

      If someone uses the term 'Enlightened' in this room, you gallerians will conjure up images of north korea, its as if you never heard of The Enlightenment or of the use of the term 'enlightended self interest' in classical economics.

      I am not here to be your victim or to gain your respect. I just marvel at the casual and incomprehensable magnitude of your human folly.

      This is not hyperbole or name calling, this is just a sad fact: everything you right wing people say is specious, outright in-your-face-false, or apropos of nothing.

      And I still cant understand how people can take turns spewing the most sensless screed and then complain about anyone responding to them.

      This is a carnival fun house of political argument.

      How do you set it up so that you hurl ad hominems, and then people who dont agree with you balme me for the ad hominems if I respond?

      How is it that you fill the board with the illest most toxic screed, and those who disagree mostly do not react to it accept to react negatively to my opposition to the ill political wind you conjure?

      Its a carnival funhouse of political argument.

      You prattle on about how poor moochers voted D. You are not aware that so did asians, so did any self respecting person from the middle east, so did the vast majority of j people, so did the majority of women. How is that that the Rs are so freaky scary that they caused both middle Easterns and Js to join against them in voting? That is a stupendous feat of political ineptitude.

      Go back and hide behind your ad hominem wall and pretend you have me on ignore. But I know how this works: each right winger posts on and on, cycling through each of his IDs... I reply, then the right wingers complain that I replied and why do I post so much? Then everyone else joins in, humiliating themselves by agreeing with what they despise in order maintain a Chamberlinian peace on the messageboard.

    • -Some typos removed-

      You are quoting Saul Alinksy? Do you know how that catapults you into the first circle of screwball hell? The only people who know about or read that obscure whoever-he-is is right wing fanatics.

      You are quoting Saul Alinksy? The first time I ever heard that name is from Newt Gingrich. No one knows or cares about Saul Alinksy except rightwing fanatics. Its like that fellow in Orwell's 1984 that was used as a focus point for projection of everything foul and wrong. You have replaced Soros with a fresh object to heap h8 onto.

      If someone uses the term 'Enlightened' in this room, you gallerians will conjure up images of North Korea, its as if you never heard of The Enlightenment or of the use of the term 'enlightended self interest' in classical economics.

      I am not here to be your victim or to gain your respect. I just marvel at the casual and incomprehensable magnitude of your human folly.

      This is not hyperbole or name calling, this is just a sad fact: everything you right wing people say is specious, outright in-your-face-false, or apropos of nothing.

      How is it that you take turns spewing the most sensless screed and then complain about anyone responding to you?

      This is a carnival fun house of political argument.

      How do you set it up so that you hurl ad hominems, and then people who dont agree with you balme me for hurling ad hominems?

      How is it that you fill the board with the illest most toxic screed, and those who disagree mostly do not react to it except to react negatively to my opposition to the ill political wind you conjure?

      Its a carnival funhouse of political argument.

      You prattle on about how poor moochers voted D. You are not aware that so did asians, so did any self respecting person from the middle east, so did the vast majority of j people, so did the majority of women. How is that that the Rs are so freaky scary that they caused bout middle Easterns and Js to join against them in voting? That is a stupendous feat of political ineptitude.

      Go back and hide behind your ad hominem wall. and pretend you have me on ignore. But I know how this works: each right winger posts on and on, cycling through each of his IDs... I reply, then the right wingers complain that I replied and why do I post so much? Then everyone else joins in, humiliating themselves by agreeing with what they despise in order maintain a Chamberlinian peace on the messageboard.

      • 1 Reply to hgff101
      • Man, never have so many people turned against one poster in such a short period of time
        Gary Kain is right, What kind of person stays and argues in the face of all this.
        Think about it for the moment. If we are what you say we are and as bad and twisted as you say we are, why are you still here?
        Does a BL man walk into a "Triple K" meeting?
        Does a homophobe walk into a gay bar?
        Does a J walk into a Mosque?

        What in God's name are you doing here associating with people who are below you...?

 
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