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The Manitowoc Company, Inc. Message Board

  • kentstate70 kentstate70 Dec 28, 2011 9:44 AM Flag

    Article about Manitowoc city workers being laid off

    Following is an article about the city of Manitowoc laying off workers.

    I cannot help but relate this article to the current strike. I am sure the people who were let go were good people. Nevertheless, there is just not the money to keep them. Rhetorical question. Did their union save their job? Of course not. Unions do not create or save jobs. Herein lies the point. If you beleive that belonging to a union makes your job more secure, then you are either ignorant or a fool. I imagine the good union workers voted for EVERY tax increase in the area --schools, sales, whatever you had in the Manitowoc area, which may have saved these peoples jobs.( of course I am being sarcastic). Think about it, as the union keeps demanding their so-called rights, companies move out, school systems deteriorate, government workers are laid off and private businesses close.

    Look, I and many people on this board have said the following many times. If you want to join a union --fine! However, you should not force a worker to join and pay dues.

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    • By law you cannot force someone to join a Union. However they are required to pay their fair share for the benefits they receive.

    • You are right. Get a raise, stop paying due to rich agents families.

    • "tail"

      Ok, now I see what you're saying.
      I stand corrected.

      Thanks for re-explaining.

    • You are right in part..Workers should not be forced to join Unions. Nor should they benefit from the protections they offer. Like fair wages, a safe working environment, overtime, pensions or reasonalbe vacation time, etc. They should allow the company to exploit them and fire them at will when they turn 40 with no recourse to sue for age discrimination. All this, just so the company can give the CEO and shareholders a bigger paycheck while shipping the jobs offshore. Remember, no company does it alone. They use taxpayer funded roads and taxpayer funded educated employees, etc. to fill their positions and get goods to market. I vote we send companies who don't want to pay their fair share and contribute the better good of this country to China where everything they have is at risk. Their will always be someone here who will start a business and play by the rules. Greedy self-serving people need not apply.

      • 6 Replies to rimmdiva
      • While I don't disagree with your point, I have to take issue with a few points,

        First, CEOs simply respond to the cost desparity in labor costs and decide what needs to be offshored or outsourced and what doesn't. If they keep production onshore they run the risk of being undercut by competition that is gaining an advantage by offshoring. The real risk that unions run is companies pulling the plug on the state and moving to a more union-hostile state rather than outsourcing.

        Second, by taxpayers you have to include corporations. The roads are built through both federal funds and 'feul tax' so everyone pays here.

        Third, most of the seasoned labor force will admit that our educational system does not prepare employees for the jobs that are needed, so the burden of training empolyees is not all taxpayor funded. A lot of training is done on the corporations dime.

        And last, the movement of jobs to china is a function of cheap labor, compromising regulation and a wilingness to do jobs that are labor intensive. Your vote to send jobs to china is an afterthought, it has been happeing since Clinton was president.

      • Such gloom and doom!!! Hopefully the new year will bring prosperity and better attitudes!

      • "Rimm"

        Did you just climb out from under a rock??
        Let's analyze your comments:
        You state that unions pay fair wages,, My checks weren't signed by the unions business agent, are your's??
        You say that unions provide "overtime"
        If you work for the union, I guess they must. I worked for a company and that company provided the overtime.
        I thought pensions were paid by the company I was working for, not the union.

        You said that the company has the right to temminate an employee @ 40.
        If that employee is a good worker, does his/her job without rework, there's no way that company will get rid of them. People are terminated for a Just cause.

        When you put your money in the bank or the stock market, I hope you expect to get your investment back with interest,, I sure do.

        "Tax payers funded roads and tax payer funded education"??
        Are you saying that company's are getting by without paying the gas tax when they buy fuel @ a gas station?? Are you saying that company's aren't paying the property tax on their business??

        Gee all the businesses I worked for or I owned had to pay the property taxes.

        "Someone will always start a business"
        It sure won't be a union.
        Although a union will be glad to tell you how to run your business.

        When I worked @ Burgers.
        Burgers had a Carpenters apprenticeship program.
        This program was funded by Burger, NOT the Union or Tax payers.
        The people who were in that Apprenticeship program were paid by Burgers NOT the union or Tax payers.

        The Union told Burgers what the program would consist of, what the apprentice got paid.

        BUT they (the union) provided diddly squat to promote that program

      • Thanks guy and tail, I was in the middle of writing a WAY too lengthy response. I even had a comment about my grandfather telling me how this was the land of opportunity:)
        Just another point. Rim, if we use your logic that no one should benefit from anything the union negotiates --then how about the following?
        You mention tax dollars for roads. If you pay no taxes should you be permitted to use the roads? How about public education. If you pay no property tax should your children receive public (so-called free-LOL) education? How about police, fire protection,libraries? Sure, you can say these are responsibilities of government. However, the fact remains someone has to pay for these services.

      • Rimm,

        Are you admitting that unions are now useless?
        If you are 40 or over you can't be fired because of EEOC.
        Safe working environment - OSHA (and bonding companies).
        Overtime is regulated by the Department of Labor.
        "Fair" wages and "reasonable" vacation time is highly subjective to the region.

        If you are so concerned with CEO's and shareholders making money why are you posting on a finance forum? Hopefully, you don't own any of that morally corrupt stock you are talking about.

        Quit with your liberal propaganda and come up with something Unions ACTUALLY do.

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