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The Royal Bank of Scotland Group plc Message Board

  • lukijack lukijack Apr 3, 2009 11:08 AM Flag

    Preferreds trading very level

    and that is good. They are in a narrow yeild range, suggesting no dumping. Only the smart (or anal) holders left.

    My other financial preferreds have legged up a bit better the last couple weeks. That is actually good for RBS, as it raises the broad preferred market support.


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    • Thanks reel. I did not suspect cross defaults jumped securities classes, but it popped into my mind while I was typing, so ...

    • Still don't understand this. Unless RBS is fully nationalized and common wiped out, these have to repay at par... and in fact these are now ahead of the UK government recouping any of its investment which is all in common (except for the hybrid notes for the insurance scheme which also rank below -- or at best equal to -- the preferreds. So how come Moody's downgrades now? Makes no sense.

      But then, it makes no sense for the diluted common to go up, while the safer-today-than-yesterday preferreds trade flat.

      RBS can offer to buy these back at pennies on the dollar, but they can't force the issue. You can't devalue a senior equity (preferred) and leave the ordinary shares intact.

      It always makes me feel that others know something I don't...

      The ordinary action looks good... and coming of the bottom, a far better investment than the preferreds. Maybe it's all traders, and this is just a bear trap for ordinary holders.

      The action in the preferreds is making me very edgy. Can't help but feel as if we are waiting for the other shoe to drop.

      • 2 Replies to rexobXIP
      • You are right they cannot force the issue of conversion. You are wrong that they have to repay the preferreds are par. They can just leave them outstanding.

        The preferreds will not advance until there are buyers. That takes time and some stabilization. Fortunately there have not been sellers, although every owner has a time and price, so sellers will return.

      • You seem to get it, methinks. At least on the preferreds versus common and on questioning Moody's. You are spot on regarding a potential swap offering on the preferreds; right now they'd have to offer at least $10 bucks, and I'd sell and pick up other preferreds under $10.

        On the price of preferreds: The RBS preferreds have traded low for a much longer time that some of the other financials. I've not seen any competition for shares for quite some time (missed the run to 7 a week ago). The most important thing I see is no significant selling. Consistent with my posts yesterday, without much buyside competition a move to that $8 buck will be post cleansing all the shares they can.

        good luck, and happy Friday,


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