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Verizon Communications Inc. Message Board

  • pipigor pipigor Jan 27, 2005 10:48 AM Flag

    why is it going down?

    can anyone explain why vz down again?

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    • Being a union member does not guarantee good or even timely work, just as being a contractor does not automatically mean high short term costs and poor results.

      There are as many good contractors and union workers just as there are total wastes in both groups and the same holds true for management.

      The key is for the leadership of the company to get all forces in the environment to work together. If they can't they have failed as have the union and management folks that protest every move. The company's only reason for being is to make a profit for the owners/shareholders, not create or maintain jobs.

      When management and union are at crossed purposes and not all focused on the single goal of profitability, the company does not prosper and typically in that scenario, upper management will survive and get paid well while all the lower ranks lose their careers. Senior management will almost always come out the winner in that battle; witness Ivan and Chuck as examples of poor performers getting paid more for less each year.

      Ending jobs for all for the sake of benefits for one group, regardless of which it is, is stupidity at its worst or best, depending on you view.

      The stock price in impacted by unions and management and senior management. They all contribute or don't, to the bottom line in many ways. Senior management should take the heat for poor performance even if it is on the part of the union simple because they have failed to properly manage the relationship in the best interests of the company.

      Without a profitable company, there are no jobs and at that point few care who was at fault.

    • Breaking the union isn't the answer. Gaining the support and cooperation of the union and its members to work toward common goals is the key. But that is the key in most successful company's, regardless of having or not having a union workforce.

    • Knowing what it takes, how long it takes, what equipment and what good results should look like isn't always the same as being able to do the same job with the same speed and quality.

      With the different groups that I managed many times I knew how to do the job because I had done it before. Often though, it had been so long ago and methods had changed that I was no longer trained to do the same exact job, however I was able to successfully manage the group.

      If there are written procedures, training manuals and established metrics, someone just familiar with the job can still manage the effort. Managing the work force should not be a contest of who can do the detailed work better, but a team effort designed at the success of the group, with both sides assisting in meeting the challenge.

      The type of environment you outline doesn't seem to fit that description. While I understand your point, I have lived it and made it work in spite of the things you define as problem issues.

    • "I meant it will not go UP until VZ breaks the lazy unions."

      See? Another jerkoff that blames the stock price on the union. Guess what moron? Every time the company tries to use contractors to install new equipment, they screw it all up, and the company has to send the REAL techs, (the union guys and gals), out to fix it. There are SOME lazy people in the union, like everywhere else, but the majority of people in the union are hard-working people that do thier job... If you actually believe that the stock price going down has ANYTHING to do with the union, I have some real estate I'd like you to take a look at... Momo...

    • Are you nuts? This will never happen, management doesn't make the money for the company, workers do. Do not take offense, I have many friends that are/were management. The management that was from the old school would not take the job if offered to them now. Lower management is worse off then craft because they take crap from both sides.

    • I meant it will not go UP until VZ breaks the lazy unions.

    • R U Serious? The stock will not go down until management wises up and breaks the union.

    • winholder, I believe that to be a good field suppervisor or higher up they need to know at least what it takes to get the job done. If they do not know what it takes how can the direct ne people to the job? Heck they can't even tell if someone is screwing them if they do not have a good idea as to what is going on. When you have a bunch ofpeople in the csc who do not know the job, but expect the job to be done in a hour that is just plain silly.

    • Your statement below appears sound. What about picking up other smaller company(s) having up-to-date facilities?

      "Nah, who needs T? It's a bunch of old garbage with a high cost structure. Anyone who really understands the business knows this. Do enterprise customers buy Frame or ATM anymore? Nope. Then there are backoffice integration costs. VZ is not going to toss the billions they are spending building the LD backbone. It's far Cheaper to continue building on GNS and use the savings to undercut the IXCs pricing and gain market share."

    • Respectfully I am going to have to disagree. You don't have to have worked outside to understand and learn the job well enough to manage it. Many of the outside guys probably understand as much about budgeting as do the accounting staff.

      Sure there are technical aspects of the job that a manager does not have to understand or know how to perform, but if they understand the engineering products and the final result desired and training that went it to it, they can effectively manage it.

      Pilots don't typically understand the detailed mechanics of the entire airplane or how to fix it, but they can fly it. In contrast the mechanics don't have to know how to fly to make the plane work safely.

      Each has its place in the success of the company. I have no reservations with the union guys wanting representation, but many times they get a big head and go too far in ways that negatively impact the company they work for and often put their own livelihood at unnecessary risk. In most union negotiations, common sense seems to a foreign language to both the union and company negotiators.

      Neither the inside management team nor the outside techs survive without the other.

      But, please lets not start the union is God and the company is the Devil or vice versa thread again. I think we all had enough of that a year or so ago.

      Unions exist, and company's exist and they will forever fight each other for bragging rights. Such is life in the business world.

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