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BP Fly Corporation Message Board

  • jkleaszr1 jkleaszr1 Jul 12, 2010 9:02 PM Flag

    Is this a Gen. 5 flywheel they are talking about.......

    In reading through the ARPA segment in regards to BCON's potential award, could this be the gen. 5 that Bill Capp has alluded to in past cc's but would not go into detail on or is this something he has been looking into in his spare time and feels could be produced with some extra help/funding?

    If the description of the new flywheel is correct (could store four times more energy than current flywheels), would they use this to reduce the overall number of flywheels per 20 MW plant (from 200 down to 50), or would they stay with the same number of flywheels and use it to increase their current energy depletion cycle time of a max of 15 minutes per flywheel to 1 hour? This would allow us to cover a larger number of problem areas in the frequency issues spectrum.

    They are talking about reducing the cost to 1/8 the current price, so it would appear they would be going with fewer flywheels for a 20 MW plant. I guess this would certainly make the decision between purchasing a 20 MW flywheel or battery plant a much easier choice, cost wise. Any thoughts on the matter???

    ARPA‐E Project Selections
    July 12, 2010
    These projects have been selected for negotiation of awards; final award amounts may vary.

    Beacon Power will lead a team in developing a next generation flywheel energy‐storage technology. In a flywheel system, electricity is stored as kinetic energy in a spinning wheel. The proposed flywheel could store four times more energy than current flywheels at 1/8th the cost. It employs a radically new “flying ring” design that is capable of accepting and delivering energy over 40,000 times during its 20‐year lifetime. The proposed technology is ideal for simultaneously addressing both the renewable ramping challenge and other grid‐storage applications.

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    • <<Sea:

      CARLETON TECH is a ghost co; possible link to ARPE project, given their work with gov't.>>

      has anyone out there done any DD on this BCON vendor?

    • Sure would explain why gov wouldnt fund a second plant of older flywheels but did give the ARPA grant.

      The futures so bright, we gotta wear shades!

    • BCON can submit uncancellable orders to suppliers but not have to pay until product is received. That may explain why they've only drawn $8M from the loan. Let's look at some rough numbers. Let's say the material & labor costs for the 20MW plant are $69M. And that BCON has $13M in in-kind assets on hand. That leaves $56M to bill against the $43M loan. That's $5.6M total cost per 2MW block, and $4.3M billable to the loan for each 2MW block. The difference is the cost share BCON has to fund. To build 4MW (4 new pods), that's $8.6M billable to the loan. They've collected $8M+ from the loan. An overly simplistic accounting for sure, but at the big picture level I don't see a problem.

      Sorry, I just don't automatically subscribe to the gloom-colored glasses view you predominantly provide. While it is possible that you are right, there are other rationale explanations that aren't followed by your ubiquitous "another example of Capp's mismanagement" statement.

    • <<What small co do you know that is in a better position than a large co to delay receipt of payments?>>

      In MY view, the odds are overwhelming that a small co. rather than a large 1 MAY be sucked in by Capp's pie in the sky projections and hence it's in BCON's best interests to have these types of suppliers/vendors.

      Unless I missed it, noticeably absent from BCON's list of vendors at S-Town is that co. from OH? or some other mid-western state whose name I shared here months ago.

      According to the news article, that co. was spending (or perhaps solicitng) ARRA (Stimulus money) to ramp up their production line for ANTICIPATED orders from BCON.

      That would be a cogent example of how many small co out there are in dire need of more sales to keep their doors open, given the prevailing business environment.

      And I'm sure BON did'nt anticipate having to delay payment, as evidenced by their $20+ mil INcancellable orders to vendors.

      As of 9/30/10 their BS shows 6 mil in cash.

      Do the math.

      This is another example of Capp's MISmanagement.


    • What small co do you know that is in a better position than a large co to delay receipt of payments? More poorly conceived tergiversation, ala your Amber/GE stance.

    • Sea:

      CARLETON TECH is a ghost co; possible link to ARPE project, given their work with gov't.

      I'm also very surpirsed they are, or were, doin biz with the co up in the Lakes region.

      Also, the Milford co. somewhat of a curious choice.

      It may be they prefer these smaller vendors so they can try to delay payments to them with the promise of significant biz in the near future, as well as opportunites with the "flying ring."

    • what a wek on YMB!

      1. lbcb..alleges BCON's CPA firm filed false financial info with SEC...YIKES! accuses cy and lbcb as being
      responsible for posts on another

      3. DOE loan info strongly suggests
      there's some sort of limbo status

      4. No r/s info or PR from Capp..yet

      5. Beaucoup questions re BCON's
      cash flow..or should I say cash

      6. volume UP...I'm actually thinking
      maybe, just maybe, hope is on the

      In short, SSDD LOL

    • anaecorp.............

    • sea...

      I realize you are off the grid until who knows when, but just so you know what I do here goes:

      Given that the last two days both been twice 90 day average, it looks to me like it will be increasingly difficult for BCON NOT to issue a PR in the not-too-distant future.

      I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they time is so as to maximize the chances that it achieves its intended purpose.

      Apparently there are people enlisting the help of Chris Witty in this regard...what comes of that, if anything, should be very interesting.

    • anaecorp........

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