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Enterprise Products Partners L.P. Message Board

  • harehau harehau Feb 18, 2012 2:28 PM Flag

    State Inc Tax

    Need to address this issue as the numbers are getting big enough to be an issue. What are others doing, software available to address???

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    • Marv-

      There are no record keeping requirements right now that I am aware of. The UBRTI tax is a weird one in that there appears to be no penalty for late filing. My off the wall comment would be if you got tangled up in an audit to simply go to the companies and ask them for the last three years of K-1s. As long as you did not own MMP, PAA and some of the E&Ps you could then back file and have a loss to apply to the problem year. I filed last year but not the prior two. I am expecting positive UBTI from several this year beased on ETP having a number of close to zero despite terrible results. If that is correct what will OKS have? How about EPD?

      Guess we will all find out over the next 4 weeks and my guessing will go away and the facts will present themselves.

      Also we probably do think much the same as our goals match - long term growth. Probably only my never sell attitude and reinvest is different.


    • Arb. I am adding to the confusion on your other post. If the government as you assume will be monitoring UBTI by IRA account per client, then you must save all your years k-i's or at least 3 years. i.e. Theoretically I have a UBTI positive for next year over $1,000. However, I sold all my KMP this year and have a backlog of $25,000-30,000 negative the last 3 years then I should be able to invoke it this year although it may show up as a small amount negative. I predict a major morass if instituted. Probably will scare a host of people who have IRA's with large positions in IRA of E and P's.

    • I do not own much in the E&P category. Thus not familiar with the UBTI from them.

      This year is probably steady as she goes. No predictions on 13 until after the election.

      Bottom fishing is not exactly what I do. I look for a company beaten up for what is a correctable fault. I both a bunch of MWE when they fired their CFO, missied a 10Q filing and went down 35% in days. They hired Buese and things have been good on $$ reporting since.


    • Hi Let me add evep and bbep to the positive UBTI class. Best way in IRA is to hold 1K KMP usually a negative $6-9,000 per year. Arb I get very nervous that your thinking approximates mine. However,ETP has 3 years of same distributions Line has 1 year CPNO appears to be followuing suite. I believe that bottom fishing is sometime warranted but pullbacks are where the money is correctly placed.Since this is EPD board and it is alittle ahead of itself, as you have stated the May guidance on distributions is my focus. Alot of upgrades-LNG hot-5 billion into projects-new ethane lines-and only answer to WTI Cushing glut and propane ethane etc terminal being expanded appear to have given me sufficient reason to hold 1/2 position. However,I believe contrary to the mass, patience is not a strategy with stocks that't main attraction is tax deferred distributions.

    • MMP and PAA are two that I own small bits of. I would own more but the state tax thing is a problem with both and especially with UBTI in an IRA.

      I now own about 40-45% of my investable assets in MLPs. EPD and MWE being over 1/2 of that. But also am sitting on almost 20% cash. Have owned both along with OKS for too many years to consider selling.

      MLPs are good through 2013. I personally am not afraid of a change in tax policy. MLPs defer taxes but over time actually the recapture of depreciation issue turns LTCG into ordinary income so no pass there. What we face is a change in the cap gain tax rate and on dividends too. Do not want to think of what that would mean.

      Thanks for sharing yuor thoughts.


    • Thanks, my MMP op income is over half the distribution, but they have been a great investment. I did buy MWE a couple of years ago, wish I had put the ETP investment into MWE, but the SUG acquisition looks like a good one, would have been great at the first price. WMB is my biggest holding so they hurt the value, just glad they stopped bidding. I have been buying ATLS and XTXI, a c corp, lately. Think I am maxed out on the sector. Don't own any e and p s except the ATLS exposure, will probably sell the ARP after spin. I'm more concerned about a tax policy change than interest rates at the moment if you believe Bernanke's strategy, and I do. But it seems rates are going to have to rise eventually, could take several years. At some point the sector is going to lose its shine, could take a couple of years. I need to find another sector that is poised to grow like this one did. The shale explosion is probably a once in a generation occurrence. Midstream still can't keep up with the activity. The Utica is just beginning, SWN announced the Brown Dense play potential, the Mississippian lime play covers several million acres, probably bigger than the Bakken, the Eagle Ford reserves keep growing, new plays in the Permian, some in the Rockies, the Williston is flaring 40% of gas now and shipping oil by rail, truck, the Cushing over supply. If we can get significant LNG exports by '15, that should keep the movement of gas going. Seems the issue will be guessing when it peaks.

    • How are the numbers big as they have historically always been negative?

      This subject was discussed with some 400 messages at IV board every year. The problem on this has changed in that now some 26 states get the state info from the Feds off the K-1.

      My positive numbers have almost always netted to zero or very close. Most I know ignore.

      There is no software to handle this either professional or regular as the data must be entered in by hand for states.


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