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Crosstex Energy, AŞ Message Board

  • john_hamilton_galbraith john_hamilton_galbraith Jun 14, 2010 2:00 PM Flag

    Why has spread between XTEX and XTXI grown in past month?

    I have noticed that XTXI has lagged XTEX performance wise in the last month vis a vis price spread. Does anyone have insight as to why this is the case? The spread is close to $3.70 per share now.

    Your thoughts are much appreciated.

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    • Liza, why is average daily volume higher on XTXI than XTEX if XTEX is the preferable stock... somethings not right here....

    • stock_manipulator_detective stock_manipulator_detective Jun 21, 2010 3:53 PM Flag

      It depends on which day you're talking about. Today it appeared as if someone was trying to move it up to sell higher. The day in which I first posted here, it appeared as if someone purposely drove it into the ground. The stock traded from a high of 7.10 to a low of 5.87 in three trading days. Some days they try to manip it up and other days they try to manip it down. Some days they are successful and some days they aren't. My grief is that the Nasdaq and SEC don't come down harder on this type of trading. They should enforce their own rules, which make it illegal to enter orders with the intent to move the price where you want it. This kind of crap takes away from the integrity of the stock market and should be stopped from the smallest trader to the largest. Unless they start prosecuting this kind of nonsense, people will continue to do it, and it will only get worse as more people get brave enough to try it. I have had enough of the BS! I just want a fair market to trade and invest in, free of jerks who try to play games with the price.

    • Agreed that there is something fishy going on. So, in your honest opinion, which way is the price being manipulated? Higher or lower than what the market would price it at without manipulation? Today it seems like price is being supressed.

      Long XTEX and XTXI

    • stock_manipulator_detective stock_manipulator_detective Jun 21, 2010 12:47 PM Flag

      Withdrawing the bid doesn't show support for the stock. ENTERING the bid, which I suspect was FAKE shows support for the stock. Let's say that a manipulator wants to sell 2000 shares at 7.16. The quote is 7.13 x 7.15. Rather than show 2000 shares on the offer, he can show 100. You can do this through NASDAQ (used to be Island). He then places four simultaneous bids (2900 shares, 1900 shares, 100 shares, 100 shares) through four different ECNs to buy the stock at 7.13. His goal is to show support for the stock hoping that someone will buy his stock at 7.16. When the offer downticked to 7.15, all four of the bids vanished instantaneously. None of your bogus scenarios explain this. I understand how the mechanics of the market work and in my opinion, this smucks of manipulation. I'm done debating this with you because you are in denial.

    • s-sibley Jun 21, 2010 11:58 AM Flag

      Ok. School me. How does withdrawing a bid show support for a stock? Does this encourage potential buyers to increase their bids, thinking that all the buyers are having remorse? My online broker (Schwab) give me an option to pull down an order after it has been placed. It also tells me not to hit the "refresh' button right after I place the order, but before the window telling me that it has officially gone thru. When I used Windows, the computer would lock up, freeze on me. Sometimes, in a fit of pique, I click aimlessly, hoping against hope that it will un-freeze. Does this seem ridiculous to you - that somewhere in this big world full of gamblers there is a poor schmuck somewhere whose aging computer has hiccupped, entered an unwanted order 3 times, and it took him a minute to restore order to his miserable life?

    • stock_manipulator_detective stock_manipulator_detective Jun 21, 2010 11:38 AM Flag

      You are giving the scumbags too much credit, dude. As I said, there were three bids at 6.90, and all three of them disappeared at exactly the same time. Were all three bids placed by the same person? If so, why three bids instead of one? Maybe to show more support than existed? If the three bids were placed by different people, how likely is it that they would have all been cancelled at exactly the same microsecond? Did they collaborate with each other? If so, another no-no. Or maybe all three of their mother's told them to clean their room at exactly the same time. BS!

      Just a few minutes ago, four bids popped up at 7.13. One was 2800 shares, one was 1900 shares, and the other two were smaller but they vanished so fast that I didn't see them. And zero shares traded before they cancelled those orders. And all four bids vanished at exactly the same microsecond. I'm sure that you will come up with some bogus scenario to explain it because you are in denial. There's no place for this kind of manipulation in publicly traded securities. Period end of story, and it isn't justified by the price being up or down or unchanged today.

    • s-sibley Jun 21, 2010 10:36 AM Flag

      Perhaps you have a more sofisticated view than me. I've spent too much time at the crap table in Vegas. I've seen people pull down a good bet, replace it with a sucker bet, right before the good bet hit. It isn't an attempt to influence the dice. People just play hunches, and stock traders are no different. Maybe the buyer cancelled his order 'cause his Mom told him to go clean up his room (Right this minute, young man!). Are you sure that in the example above, that the 500 shares for sale after the downtick are the same 500 shares that were for sale prior to the downtick? if so, then the seller didn't place a limit order at $6.90, or he cancelled it, placed a new order at the lower price. Perhaps he had 1500 shares to sell, 1000 of them at $6.90, and 500 at $6.89. The scenarios are endless. No matter - he failed, and lost out (based on the $7.10/share it is selling at Monday, 9:30 CDT.)

    • stock_manipulator_detective stock_manipulator_detective Jun 19, 2010 6:59 AM Flag

      The bid was 6.90. The size was 1000 shares. Someone sold 500 shares to the buyer at 6.90 and the balance of the bid at 6.90 was cancelled.

      Quote 6.90 x 6.92 Size 10 x 2
      Trade 100 at 6.90
      Quote 6.90 x 6.92 Size 9 x 2
      Trade 100 at 6.90
      Quote 6.90 x 6.92 Size 8 x 2
      Trade 100 at 6.90
      Quote 6.90 x 6.92 Size 7 x 2
      Trade 100 at 6.90
      Quote 6.90 x 6.92 Size 6 x 2
      Trade 100 at 6.90
      Quote 6.90 x 6.92 Size 5 x 2
      Quote 6.88 x 6.90 Size 1 x 5

      You see what happened here? It looks like someone entered a limit order to sell 1000 shares at 6.90. After 500 shares of their order filled, the buyer at 6.90 cancelled his order. The stock downticked, and the balance of the seller's order was showing on the offer. And I'd also like to point out that there were two other market makers/ECNs bidding 6.90 that disappeared at exactly the same instant as the buyer who had 500 shares remaining on his bid. One had a size of 200 shares and the other 100 shares. I'm not disputing that this is computerized trading. But this would be manipulation if those three bids (1000 shares, 200 shares, and 100 shares) were placed with the sole purpose of trying to support the stock by someone trying to move the stock up or get a fill on the offer. Check the Nasdaq regulations. It is illegal to place any order to buy or sell a security if your goal is to move the price where you want it.

      >>In any transaction, there are two happy traders. One thinks the price will go higher, while the other thinks it will go lower.

      That's the way it is supposed to work. But when someone enters orders with the intent to move the price around, the above goes out the window because they aren't trading or investing in the stock. They are trying to jack around with the price.

      Many brokers offer Level II (also called Depth charts) for free or a small fee. There are videos on YouTube that show what a Level II and time and sales window looks like.

      To jsmitts33: My orders were not all or none. I never use that type of order.

    • Is it an all or none order?

    • s-sibley Jun 18, 2010 1:26 PM Flag

      I don't see how that is manipulation. If so, didn't the seller lose 500 shares at the lower price? What happened to the price after that? Did it go to $6.91? A "manipulator" could get manipulated out of his position pretty easily unless he has a crystal ball. Seems to me that anyone who thinks he can do this is too smart by about one half. If the price dropped after the offer was withdrawn, the seller made a "bad" move.

      In any transaction, there are two happy traders. One thinks the price will go higher, while the other thinks it will go lower. Those same shares could have been had for $6.00 just a couple of weeks ago. A few months ago, they could have gone for $9.00.

      BTW. I'm interested in where you are seeing these buy and sell orders in real time. Is it a subscription service?

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