Nokia Corporation Message Board
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Also NO EARNINGS, as you can tell by the 77 PE. When SONY's Price/Earns. Ratio "NORMALIZES" at 15 come the next market swoon, it will mean SONY at $4 Stock Price, OR Sony's Earns. will have had to have gone up 500%. With SONY's huge cost of mountain of retirees, it more likely means SONY will be $4 stock.
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When the next recession comes, SONY won't even be making the 1/77th earnings vs. price of shares anymore. SONY had to SELL ITS BUILDINGS IN MANHATTAN & TOKYO TO SURVIVE IT WAS SO SHORT OF CASH LAST YEAR.
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Their interview of David Trainer two days ago was pure b.s. He claimed Apple's ROIC (Return on Invested Capital bythe company) went down alot from 300% to 200% 2011 vs. 2012. OK, but it was still sky-high,and Apple increased its profits more in 2012 vs. 2011 than the increased capital it put to work. Then he claimed, when the ROIC goes down to say 70% as Microsoft makes, that Apple stock would plunge to $240 per share. But that assumes two things, first that Apple's profit margin on invested capital would go down and that its PE of only 10 would stay the same. But Apple's PE is very low 10 because people already assume its profit margins will go down. If and after they go down, why can't Apple then have a 16 PE like Microsoft or 100 PE like Facebook, or 1000 PE like Amazon (which has sky-high PE because it has about 0% profit margin).
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No their trading desk was SHORT THE CALLS. Now it must go lower so they can "break even"
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Lets see if I get this right- Dump the stock to lower the price and sell thousands of puts.
by andrew2d •May 16, 2013 11:06 AMYep, sorry I sold only 5 puts yesterday instead of my usual 10 puts.... and sorry I bought 1000 shs. today at $421.10, but sold them too soon making only $1,100 at $422.20 in 10 mins. Andrew (yes another Andrew).
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Not true. I bought 1000 shs. AAPL this morning at $421.10, and quickly sold it for $422.20
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Apple stock up 50,000% if Margins were to go down 50% (still alot higher margins than Amazon earns) but if Apple had a 1000 PE like Amazon.
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$240 is what this stock is worth according to President Trainer of New Constructs -$300 soon
by rayray3333 •May 16, 2013 9:51 AMYou mean David Trainer's analysis. But its based on serious Fallacy. He says Apple can't continue to earn high ROIC (return on invested capital), so he assumes it will go down alot, but then he applies same low 10 PE ratio. What if Apple really did earn much lower ROE (Return on Equity capital) but its PE instead was like Amazon's 1000 PE but Amazon earns tiny profit. What if AAPL had a 100 PE like FaceBook, but Apple's profit margins and so earnings were half of where they are today? ANSWER APPLE STOCK WOULD GO UP 500%.
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73 JEWpigs given 10 plus year prison terms so far in 2013 for insider trading. And it's only May.
by escapegrl1 •May 16, 2013 9:21 AMWhat about Congresswoman PELOSI (Dem's top Congress leader) her networth has gone up 20X to $200 million since Obama took office, all on INSIDER TRADING. She and the other Top Dems. run govern. policy in order to cause Volatility in Securities Markets and profit off government caused Insider Information. (she made tons shorting Lehman Bros. in 2008, knowing the govern. would order it to go Bankrupt and not bail it out, as it bailed out Bank of America, Merrill Lynch, Citicorp owned by Saudi Royals paid off Bush...etc.)
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He claims Apple's ROIC (return on invested capital) his version of ROE (return on equity) must come down to industry averages. Then he ASSUMES Apple's PE would stay at 10. Why? Its PE is that low because people already assume the margins / profits must come down. Why can't AAPL have a 25, 100 or even 1000 PE Ratio, if it had lower profits like Amazon has almost no profits but 1000 PE? If Apple's profits came down 90% but its PE up 100X to Amazon's 1000 PE, then Apple's stock would go up 10X in price.
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OK, lets assume a few years from now Apple's ROE goes down even as much as 50%. But it then gets a PE Ratio of 25 like GOOG or 1000 like Amzn, or 100 like FaceBook. Basically Apple stock will rocket up.
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David Trainer a little known self-styled stock analyst, was on CNBC two days ago claiming Apple per his analysis was worth $240 per share. His reasoning: He said Apple can not continue to have as high a ROIC (return on invested capital) as in past, its returns must go down to Microsoft's levels, and then applying same 10 PE as today, the stock would go down First what is ROIC? It sounds like his own made up version of better-known ROE (or Return on Equity). OK folks, lets assume Apple's margins can't stay as high, lets ASSUME they go down by 50% even, so Apple will have half the profits, but why then assume Apple's PE ratio would stay at 10? The reason Apple's PE Ratio is today so low compared to Facebook, Google, even to Microsoft, is because people already assume Apple's profit margins will go down. So if they do go down, then using same logic Apple's PE Ratio would go up! If Apple's ROE or profits goes down 50%, but Apple gets a 1000 PE as AMAZON has, AAPL would rocket up 500X. If Apple's ROE or profits go down alot but its then afforded an 100 PE like Facebook, again Apple stock Rockets up alot. What if Apple still growing is only afforded a PE of about 16 as sluggish growth Microsoft has?
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Once too many "white guys" do this, the whole world and system will fall apart. Normally only illegal aliens women and children live off the Government / live off US Taxpayers backs. DID YOU SEE LATEST re. IRS? THEY PAY $5000 to $10,000 per year to mainly illegal aliens in "child credit" checks for people with no social security numbers, and also so-called EITC Tax Credits for mainly Obama's people most whom pay no income taxes, instead they receive tax revenues from the US Govt., to thank these mostly never married people for having Illegitimate Kids (leaving off the fathers of those kids to support mainly for women of color).
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That's ok... sold $395 Puts today, probably will expire worthless. Bought 1K shares today under $425/sh., sold for $1.20 more.
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Samsung / S. Korea doesn't have burden of Affirmative Action costs, nor of having to pay for its employees' health care. USA alone among developed nations, our government can't afford to pay for private industry employees health care, because we are spending $30 billion a year on S. Korea's defense. Why? Koreans are now rich enough to pay for own defense.
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Samsung / S. Korea has been stealing from USA for years. It costs USA over $30 billion a year to keep our 30,000 Soldiers there defending them. Plus one of our fleets off their shore. USA is heavily in Debt, Korea is piling up the Assets and laughing about the "dumb Americans who pay for their defense". 60 Years now $30 billion a year it costs us, that's $2 Trillion or = to the missing Social Security Trust Fund. This is why Gen. X and Gen. Y will face severely lowered Social Security, and old people's retirements, other than Govern. Employees, are already being cut by our government. SAMSUNG / S. KOREA IS RICH ENOUGH TO PAY FOR THEIR OWN DEFENSE, and they are a BURDEN USA CAN NO LONGER AFFORD.
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you can't keep re releasing the same phone and calling it " New "
by sstillen •Apr 25, 2013 1:42 AMArticles out yesterday in NY Times and Wall St. Journal say the Samsung S4 is not much improved over the Samsung S3. And article on Yahoo yesterday said its just got software gimmickry improvements over the Samsung Galaxy S3.
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vs. the Samsung Galaxy S3 model. yahoo article said it only has Gimmick improvements over the S3.
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GALAXY S4 it says has no great improvements over the Galaxy S3, only marginal improvements.
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Remember the Foxconn slow down rumor? iPhones not selling?
by im_long_aapl •Apr 24, 2013 9:18 AMOK, in reality iPHONE sales Unit Volume was better this past quarter than same quarter the prior year.