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China Jo-Jo Drugstores, Inc. Message Board

alsense 62 posts  |  Last Activity: 7 hours ago Member since: Mar 11, 1998
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  • Reply to

    seiden press release

    by fafufnikus Nov 26, 2014 5:37 PM

    You mean his initial plan failed, so plan b is to spend more $ to fight with the people who sell, make and transport slurry.

    Ren does not care because this business sucks. His friends are watching to see what happens.

  • Reply to

    Sedien Doesn't Control Ren!

    by moneysucker111 8 hours ago

    We'll, duh.

    Seiden can't even get Ren to take his phone calls anymore.

  • It is pretty much what I've been saying:

    1. Ren didn't cooperate.
    2. Seiden didn't have control, so he spent a lot of money getting little or nothing done.
    3. Wiscon issued new dilutive shares without Seiden's permission...affirming he doesn't have control
    4.Seiden hired a Chinese law firm, without Ren's permission. He is hiring a band of consultants to fight Ren (on the basis of inaction or on the basis of a legal conflict (was not totally clear from the pr).

    So, among other bits of relevant but unreleased information:
    -how much has Seiden spent?
    -how many new slurry contracts have been signed since Seiden started fighting with Ren?
    -it seems clear that Seiden needed to take "decisive action" since he does not control the bank accounts. The new Chinese base law firm is not going to be cheap.

    I'm curious to know how the shareholders are enjoying owning a company where they don't know who is in control, and where the legal bills are extremely high, and where guys like Seiden and local Chinese law firms are trying to force actions related to control rather than to the operations of the underlying business.

    How is the business holding up in light of lower energy costs? How's the coal mine doing? How's crown energy? How do we feel about Thailand these days?

    Did the money paid in advance for coal that was not delivered...that money...did it get returned?

    Nobody knows. Good luck to Seiden and his newly appointed team of slurry experts. Anyone think they'll succeed?

  • Reply to

    for mizesaw who said

    by whbuncensored Nov 24, 2014 1:16 PM
    alsense alsense Nov 24, 2014 2:47 PM Flag


    The polystyrene or butyl additives aren't true chemical catalysts. They are added to keep the coal particles in suspension. Without these ingredients, the coal particles cling together, and expose less surface area on combustion. So, while the combustion is improved, it isn't a better chemical reaction, but just a more efficient mechanical performance.

    You are right about competition. If you read the last 10K (ancient history), it talks about how competitors set up slurry shops in various chinese slums (not the exact language), and steal SCEI's prospective customers.

    Slurry sucks.

    It is so bad that Santa won't even put it in stockings of folks on the naughty list.

  • Reply to

    The headline was wrong

    by lbcb321 Nov 1, 2014 12:42 PM
    alsense alsense Nov 20, 2014 12:10 PM Flag

    Losing face is, and always has been, a Japanese cultural concern. Chinese culture has never worried about it. In fact, the Chinese tradition is to hide one's face and obfuscate.

    This is not to say there aren't bad Japaneses people or good Chinese people. But the rampant theft of intellectual property in China is well known, as are the Chinese RTO failures. In Japan, a business failure can result in suicide (Harikiri), where in China, a business failure can result in a lot of high fives over a couple of Thai cocktails.

  • Reply to

    Robber Seiden shouldn't get a dime

    by whbuncensored Nov 18, 2014 1:49 AM
    alsense alsense Nov 19, 2014 1:15 AM Flag

    I'm not suggesting that Ren will sue. I'm suggesting that if Seiden is trying to seize control of the bank accounts, Ren has some options. He could simply say "no" and tell Seiden that if he tries to get the bank accounts, he will leave and take the employees with him. He could also make Seiden go to court to prove he has any authority to seize assets, and use the company's money to pay his lawyer. He would potentially have to work through court in Hong Kong, as well as in each jurisdiction where Ren has a signature card at a bank. That could be a lot of lawsuits. Also, Ren might simply have Seiden's people stopped outside the front door and hauled off by cops for trespassing until he proves he has real access.

    It is nice to see the bulls here backing off their vitriol. Right or wrong, who needs that in their life?

  • Reply to

    What is going on?

    by blassy987 Nov 14, 2014 11:06 AM
    alsense alsense Nov 15, 2014 10:51 AM Flag

    Yes, what's going on is billable hours. Lots of them.

    Seiden's Syphon is operating.

    Obviously, he ran in to some problems. He doesn't want you to know the details, or he would make them public. My guess is that Ren got sick of Seiden, and acted to limit Seiden's control. Ren has tremendous power. He can, and may have:
    1. Hire a different set of lawyers to take Seiden to court
    2. Take his ball and go home, leaving no one to run the company
    3. Pay out tall funds to vendors, who will kick back the cash to Ren
    4. Fire everyone, start a new company and move on

    Anyway, it's just another day in the slurry world, where small margins and deception rule the day.

  • Sales: $12
    Cost of sales: $13
    Loss: $1

    Anyone care to volunteer to audit these?

    Of course, I'm not totally sure about the accuracy, but it is the most accurate stuff yet reported. No arguments there, right?

  • The road to hell is paved with good intentions, but what road is paved by bad intentions?

    Let's speculate for a moment that Ren is putting up a fight. Now that Seiden "controls" Ren (what a joke), we can guess that he has a tiger by the tail. Ren is in position to use all of the company's money and whatever resources he controls to hire chinese lawyers to defend him as CEO of whatever entity he still manages. Seiden needs to try to get paid from the same pool.

    Hey, that reminds me, did anyone on this board ever see Star Wars? Remember how that one guy...Palpatine wound up in power? He controlled both sides of a war. So, Seiden is Palpatine and is spending money like crazy, and forcing the other side to do the same. There is no "Luke" in this story, nor is there a "Luke's father" who will come to the rescue.

    Do you think that any remaining slurry customers are still paying their contract price now that they can buy slurry for 35% less than they could a year ago? When the customers renegotiate with SCEI subsidiaries, will there be enough margin to pay for the electricity to crush the coal, and the water with which to mix it?

    I have a feeling that Seiden will come back with a report soon, and that report will be drastically different than the 13D group expects. I think the business climate in China is such that a wet coal company must be struggling mightily. Even if the business had been operating profitably all this time, I have to believe that the last few months have been tortuous. I think the report from Seiden will say things like:

    1. All the money is gone, because it was sent out to a coal mine at a less than optimal time, and guaranteed coal purchases at rates that are above current market values.
    2. We tried to save this company, but it was too late.
    3. There are no new customers, because mom and pop slurry shops were able to set up coal crusher/soaker equipment on site at customer factories.
    4. Ren's boondoggle to Thailand was more costly than expected.

  • alsense alsense Nov 3, 2014 12:38 PM Flag

    Can you give us some insight as to the control Seiden has via the Wiscon board? Do you think that maybe the gov't in Hong Kong doesn't recognize the receivership set up in Nevada? Do you think the board took Seiden to court in Hong Kong over their rights? Do you think Hong Kong recognizes a court order from Nevada? After all, Seiden didn't become a majority shareholder, but he became a receiver. As a receiver, he "removed" the members of the board. If they didn't feel like being forcibly removed, perhaps they voted against (or simply ignored) Seiden, and his claim to control.

    Where is Ren btw?
    Where are the unaudited financials?
    Who is Ren's lawyer? Has he met Seiden?

    How many new customers has Seiden contracted with since he "took control," and was he able to secure any sales commissions based on slurry sales?

    Perhaps a bigger question: If Seiden actually gets mired in legal battles in China, how aggressive will he be? The moment he stops believing he can get blood from the turnip which is Ren's company, he'll be gone. Right?

  • alsense alsense Nov 2, 2014 3:20 PM Flag

    Yeah. The should not have selected Halloween as their self-imposed deadline. It seems the data was simply too scary, or haunted by ghosts of slurry past.

  • alsense alsense Nov 1, 2014 6:49 PM Flag

    Congratulations on this, by the way.

  • The syphon continues. The intention to release financials continues. The intentions are wonderful, but the court ordered bills are real.

    I was about to say that it will be fun to watch this all unfold, but perhaps it won't unfold. Perhaps it will simply fold. See CNGL for reference.

  • Reply to

    Will There be an Excuse?

    by mizesaw Oct 29, 2014 8:11 AM
    alsense alsense Oct 29, 2014 2:19 PM Flag

    I think some info will be released, along with another notice of syphoning.

    I, for one, am convinced that Ren is either a bad manager or a criminal, but I'm not sure which. As to Seiden, now that he is clearly in precise control of the company, I can't wait to see how his vast slurry related marketing and sales prowess is contributing to new slurry contracts, risk reductions and cost saving measures.

    I imagine records of contracts, payments, invoices and other critical papers in a dirty filing cabinet with slurry footprints on the concrete floor, and a portable conference table in an inadequate building. I imagine Seiden's "control" (whatever that means) has resulted in discovery of some really bad business practices, which can't actually be corrected by a USA based consultant. Therefore, Seiden should be in the business of milking this situation until there isn't any money left to pay his own bill and that of the consultants. He will then declare victory and go home...and you'll see a press release promoting Seiden as the go-to guy for chinese RTOs that go dark.

    Seiden is likely to be the primary beneficiary here, imo.

  • Reply to

    Who's selling at 20-cents? (Adam, is that you???)

    by asianvest Oct 23, 2014 10:10 AM
    alsense alsense Oct 23, 2014 11:47 AM Flag

    More substantially, as the anticipation builds toward the Seiden report, people should be moving the price up. Buy the rumor, sell the news and all that...

    The most likely reason that this traded at $0.25 yesterday and $0.20 today is that some folks from the group have become nervous, owing to recent conversations with Seiden's firm. My understanding is that he is resetting expectations with his clients at this time. I know some of the folks in the group have been contacting his office in advance of the unaudited financials release. Recent trades suggest that ever-more realistic expectations are coming from that bastion of integrity, Seiden. (Don't forget, he gets paid first).

  • Reply to

    Who's selling at 20-cents? (Adam, is that you???)

    by asianvest Oct 23, 2014 10:10 AM
    alsense alsense Oct 23, 2014 11:36 AM Flag

    new acronym development

    13-D emotional aid society and penny stock promotion club and illegal insiders guild all promoting seiden's syphon.


    The ongoing theme of "convoluted" follows these guys around.

  • alsense alsense Oct 20, 2014 4:29 PM Flag

    Summary of court report:

    We did some stuff and want to get paid. Please approve our invoice.

    If we ever recover any money or create any value, we'll let you know. Meanwhile, please approve our invoice.


  • Asian coal prices are 1 standard deviation below their 5 year average. If SCEI bought a coal mine, they probably wish they hadn't, because the prices of coal are down, and it is not a lucrative business at this time.

    If they didn't buy a coal mine, that's good for them (but wait...)

    All the mom and pop slurry shops that Ren discussed in their last annual report are suddenly able to buy coal inexpensively. They could be bidding slurry to some of Ren's customers. In fact, this is exactly what happened before that caused Ren to think about buying a coal mine. (but wait....again). Had he bought the coal mine, it would suck right now, right? I mean, other than the little bit of coal that may or may not be processed in places like Dongguan, the market for coal miners sucks right now.

    Ah, the joy of commodity sales with limited value add.

    Anyone think SCEI is making lots of profit right now?

  • alsense by alsense Oct 14, 2014 12:42 AM Flag

    1. I loved it when AV tallied up the number of threads started by various people here. As for my posts, I decided a month or so ago to start about 1 per week. It has worked out for me. Yay me.

    2. I really liked IBCB's input this week. He (or she) asks a simple question to which there is no positive answer for shareholders: Has any money every left China as part of a recovery like the one sought in SCEI? The answer, of course, is "no."
    (Sorry, I forgot to capitalize there).

    3. I noticed that brntjns1234 seems to have, as the first part of his internet name "burnt jeans." I guess he is used to Chinese RTOs.

    4. I enjoyed Alain's "Take my ball and go home" post. I guess he is gone forever.

    5. Finally, I will clarify the argument between brntjns and ibcb. Ibcb claims that no money has ever left china to repay shareholders in a company like scei. brntjns claims that no money must leave china in order for the assets of scei to be sold.

    Technically, they are both right. However, brntjns provides an impossibly uninformed view. SCEI's only asset is a piece of paper which says it owns all of the equity in a Hong Kong corporation. He would have shareholders believe that this asset is worth many tens of millions of dollars. If he was right, the stock would be trading at the requisite value. So, the market has spoken. brntjns is wrong. That debate is over. The paper asset (singular) of SCEI is not worth much, and no one will buy it. (Actually, if it was a clean shell company, I might buy it for about $20K).

    Ibcb is right, in that no one has ever shown an example of money leaving china in this type of situation. When someone gets some cash out of China for SCEI shareholders, let me know.

    By the way, there are still some unanswered questions:

    -Where are the financials SCEI intended to release?
    -What other good intentions pave the road to hell?
    -How are slurry sales?
    -Is Seiden doing a good job managing the sales and marketing departments?
    -How's Dongguan?
    -Ren's STDs?


  • Reply to

    Not One Dime of Money has to come out of China

    by brntjns1234 Oct 8, 2014 7:16 PM
    alsense alsense Oct 9, 2014 12:53 PM Flag

    1. I never said that no money has come out of china from a dark company.
    2. I'm going to guess that Ren has more control over operations than Seiden, both politically and in a practical sense.
    3. I think creditors have more control over money than does Seiden. He can't legally take any money out of the company that is reserved for creditors (including amounts that need to be set aside for payroll, etc).

    So, your one word sentence "Period" rings hollow.

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