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Energy Transfer Partners, L.P. Message Board

arbtrdr 222 posts  |  Last Activity: Apr 15, 2014 9:24 AM Member since: Oct 16, 2000
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  • Reply to

    I love it when I get ticked off...

    by mktplyr517 Jan 22, 2014 12:05 PM
    arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 22, 2014 4:12 PM Flag

    Actually no. I owned Leviathon which became Gulf Terra and in turn EPD. 1994 is the year.

    Forgiving what you said and going by what you meant - a one time bump of .28 as a "one time special distribution" would do nothing because it would not count in the distribution rate or the CAGR used by analysts.

    Increasing the distribution by .28 to .97 ($3.88 annualized) would require an additional $1.12B a year and would leave EPD with basically 1X coverage. It would also require issuing approximately 10M more units a year and $600M in debt. This is for every year.

    I ask a couple simple questions - Have you ever spoken with EPD about this? Have you ever met with them in person? Have you ever participated in a conference call or listened to one? Understand that none of us here can change anything at EPD. Your thoughts have been posted MANY times here and many call it whining. Why not instead speak to EPD and let them know - OK? Otherwise more and more people here will simply do what some suggested to do with you on the IV Board via PMs - ignore.


  • Reply to

    Natural Gas and NGL price action

    by teldar_proxy Jan 22, 2014 9:11 AM
    arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 22, 2014 1:22 PM Flag

    Wonder if the longer term opportunity to put out hedges at a higher price happened. That would help MWE. Short term moves not much. The help is to EPD with its big propane export operation. Propane leaving Marcus Hook is small potatoes.

  • arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 22, 2014 10:41 AM Flag

    Duff - The shortages are because of the way propane it distributed by a lot of small retailers. Very inefficient. Will take a week or two to get them filled back up. The price changes are short term because the real volumes are getting exported today.

  • Reply to

    Extra cold winter, Pipe-lines should be smoking!!

    by msftgo1 Jan 21, 2014 5:19 PM
    arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 21, 2014 11:38 PM Flag

    What does this really have to do with EPD. Its long haul pipes are contracted for longer terms and they are paid on demand - not volume. EPD also has few assets in New England. Their pipelines are located as follows in their press release "The company’s Onshore Natural Gas Pipelines & Services segment operates approximately 19,900 miles of onshore natural gas pipeline systems to gather and transport natural gas in Colorado, Louisiana, New Mexico, Texas, and Wyoming." They haul gas to the Gulf for fractionation - not to homes. Nothing in your area.

  • Reply to

    Interesting pattern

    by billwilliams836 Jan 21, 2014 4:07 PM
    arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 21, 2014 6:45 PM Flag

    Lots of people are not even watching AMPE closely right now. With no anticipated news in any of the trails for at least some weeks the only thing is either a short deciding to cover or more likely a large buyer. A short would really be stupid to cover with a market order. A large buy probably would not care about paying another .50 or so.

  • Reply to


    by obboi Jan 12, 2014 2:59 PM
    arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 21, 2014 5:10 PM Flag

    obboi - Do you get your information from Kim Jung Il? Can't get much more stupid than that. RNO already said their GP would continue waiver for the distribution on their units and RNO is covering their current payout at .445.

  • Reply to

    Selling another 8 million APU

    by dar200 Jan 13, 2014 5:23 PM
    arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 21, 2014 3:12 PM Flag

    Sooner - Is the price of APU really very material to ETP? ETP now has about 12.9M left. Two more sales and we are done. Would think they would try to finish that this year so as to not have APU part of the 2015 K-1. No idea how much the gain is on the units sold last year. Our K-1s will tell that story pretty soon.

  • Reply to


    by agnewpeters Jan 3, 2014 1:42 AM
    arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 21, 2014 2:09 PM Flag

    Your comments are right on. Think both of us are positive but with a bit of common sense (whatever that is!)

  • Reply to

    Australia and MHR

    by arbtrdr Jan 16, 2014 8:59 AM
    arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 21, 2014 12:22 PM Flag

    DCF - a couple of corrections - I am not a short. I just stated the facts. MHR has had repeated delays in building their pipeline and despite knowing the percentage of liquids in the NG did not make provisions for cleaning out the lines with pigs. The high NGLs are good. The extra expense and delays in shutting down the line to fix it are not.

    In the past MHR has a history of bashing others for perceived errors and continuing to make many of their own. GE is a great oil guy with a nose where to drill. I just find it strange they are going to Australia to provide what amounts to consulting work.

  • Reply to

    If I buy this and put in my Roth

    by steved11793 Jan 20, 2014 6:33 PM
    arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 21, 2014 12:13 PM Flag

    ETP has occasionally produced UBTI. MLPs need to be watched so that UBTI is under $1000. The rules with UBTI are VERY complicated. Also UBTI is cumulative for all MLPs and you count only positive UBTI and cannot offset with negative ones. Fine for a small amount but not for a very big investment.

    Also be aware that technically you are liable for paying tax on the sale within an IRA - and yes I know this has never been enforced - so being aware of any changes in either tax laws or enforcement would be necessary as well. There are ways to avoid this but much too complicated for the average investor.

  • Reply to

    Perspective on KMI's holdings of KMP vs EPB

    by epholder Jan 13, 2014 1:11 PM
    arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 21, 2014 12:02 PM Flag

    Absolutely not. 15 years ago there were about 50 pipelines without any interconnects except in places like Cushing. Today pipeline mileage has more than tripled and pipes have some 200 interconnect places. Thus pipes have become a system of delivery instead of isolated pipes.

  • Reply to

    Bwp share price

    by grooveylady2001 Jan 16, 2014 10:07 AM
    arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 21, 2014 11:06 AM Flag

    What do you think would be being responsive? What would constitute being responsive in your mind? Management is working to diversify into gathering/processing and storage. They are working on operational efficiencies and reducing costs - have you discussed this with them? - I have - any they discussed several things they are doing in order to return a higher DCF to both them and us.

    Are you suggesting that management is not trying to get more profits? Loews owns more than 1/2 of BWP. They could easily increase their ownership to over 50% (and could have done this some years ago) and taken out the LP owners on the cheap. Bottom line is it is not reasonable to comment on short term market action on behalf of management. Management will comment in February on the Q4 results and I am sure respond to questions about what happens going forward to raise the unit price. That is the appropriate time and place. Not now.

  • Reply to


    by paid_hypster_2 Jan 20, 2014 10:41 PM
    arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 21, 2014 9:27 AM Flag

    BWP makes its money from owning and leasing out space in long haul NG pipelines. The demand is paid for whether or not BWP moves the gas. Thus no effect on short term demand. THe problem for BWP is alternate ways today and new patterns for moving gas. EPB has a similar problem and it effects KMP to a lesser degree as well. Simply put gas is now travelling on a system instead of a single pipe. Lots of choices and thus competition.

  • Reply to

    Bwp share price

    by grooveylady2001 Jan 16, 2014 10:07 AM
    arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 20, 2014 9:20 AM Flag

    Are you serious? Management has a schedule to announce the distribution and an earnings date already announced. If they did anything else is would actually be a significant negative. Management HAS been supporting investors by making changes to operate the company better and have it earn more DCF. Their job is not to put out stupid press releases. What you are suggesting simply says you are angry and frustrated. Suggest you call them!

  • Reply to

    rating change

    by rjraecek Jan 15, 2014 1:13 PM
    arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 19, 2014 12:06 PM Flag

    It is up about 5% lately and they completed 4 projects on time and budget. The November news is sort of old to me. Do understand your comment using that reference point. Other more meaningful brokers(Wunderlich has only about 400 agents in the entire USA) have upped the target prices for MWE. Hard for most to upgrade and MWE is on the outperform or buy list for most brokers and has been for at least a couple months.

  • Reply to


    by andrew.grossman Jan 15, 2014 11:38 AM
    arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 18, 2014 1:36 PM Flag

    Loews owns about 1/2 of BWP. Seems like lots of people who have not read much. Distributions are done every 3 months on a schedule that has stayed the same for years. Looks like many are a bit lazy as info is all on the Yahoo site.

  • Reply to

    Bwp share price

    by grooveylady2001 Jan 16, 2014 10:07 AM
    arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 18, 2014 1:33 PM Flag

    Management will announce on the usual schedule. No way Loews cuts the distribution. They would give a waiver before that happened. BWP is slowly turning it around with diversification away from long haul pipes that are having to be contracted at lower rates.

    Derivative - looked at 5 broker analyst reports and NONE called for a distribution cut. I do note that Bluegrass is likely NOT to be built now as MWE has most of the NGLs out of the Marcellus and KMP already has most of the pipe in place. Bluegrass likely for 2016 or 2017.

  • Reply to

    today's observation

    by nymarv10956 Jan 16, 2014 10:51 AM
    arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 18, 2014 11:22 AM Flag

    No worries. Agree CCalls a great. Sure are some grumpy evaluations.
    Agree prices going nowhere. Some major breakdowns in several MLPs this last week. Would guess most DCF numbers this quarter will be a yawner. Great YoY numbers for MWE coming but little movement on DCF per unit. Growth is both great and painful.

  • Reply to

    Trading question follow up

    by julietsjourney Jan 16, 2014 5:28 PM
    arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 18, 2014 11:17 AM Flag

    Yes - If you own it on the last day of the month or the first day of the month you are allocated the earnings and depreciation for that month. ALL units are combined even at different brokers by the company. The only way to do this is VERY short term trades (under about 20 days) or to buy it using another tax id number (wife?) or kids. They can then report any gain or loss as "Nomineee" on the tax return and list your SS#. Also remember the company assigns an averaged number for both selling and purchase price (not what you actually paid) so a call to K-1 support would be needed to correct that one even using another tax ID.

    Bottom line - doesn't work very well. That companies hate it and how do you time ST trades that need to not include the first or last day of the month?

    Hope this helps.

  • arbtrdr arbtrdr Jan 18, 2014 11:03 AM Flag

    PS getting it on line is about 10 days faster too!

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