There are rumors floating around that Apple will come out with multiple screen sizes for then next version of the iPhone. If this is case, there's a case to be made for an larger screen version with Intel inside.
1) It seems the larger screen ( 4") phones are getting popular so Intel needs to get into this category
2) According to reports, it looks like Intel's next smartphone SoC will be far superior to anything arm-based ones. This means, Apple will have no choice but to use Intel just to be on even level with other phones that will be using it.
3) Apple can split the fab between tsmc and Intel.
wow! 5.5", 404ppi, 13MP camera, less than 7mm???!!! this is crazy good!
Shorts really should cover Monday morning...premarket.
Here's alexander#$%$ commentary:
We will find out more on Monday at 1pm PT @ CES2013 Intel event.
I think the event will be webcast. It was last year. That is one reason for flurry of bashing during the last couple days. The AnandTech article was eye-opening for many.
"They can't compete on pricing with x86 vs ARM. I'm in the business, I know."
If you are in the business then you know that your statement is not exactly accurate. Intel can compete on pricing. They chose to compete on value. There goal is to pile up the transistors on the chip and to create value for the customers. They will do that by putting more on the single chip, tightly control power, performance and then set pricing based on value.
"If they were strictly making chips, ..."
When the CPU, SoC or ... is in the final machine on the retailer's shelf, each CPU in that sysem has undergone ALL the same phases. People just confuse who the competitors are and fail to consider all the costs. They assign the cost of the ARM CPU out the foundry as the "cost of the CPU". There is additional engineering overhead that is part of that CPU beyond what the foundary charges. Intel customers will not have to staff those engineers (like QCOM, NVDA, ...) and can use the off the shelf parts. You have to be careful when assigning cost and price pressures.
"However, coupling the own design R&D expenses with own production, and their cost is higher. Products might be better, but cost is higher."
The Intel cost may or may not be higher. You do not know the Intel cost, nor do I suspect that you know the actual other company costs. Even if you are "part of the business" you can only estimate these things.
"You may think performance is important, but in reality it defines 1% of the decision of 1% of the market...."
1% of 1% is your guess. Right?
My guess on decision elements .... not in any particular order except #1:
1. vendor (is it an Apple, Samsung, ....) of product that can basically do the job.
2. price ("cost" to them but not the "cost" to build the device) ... most won't buy if they can't afford (except maybe the guys)
3. is the product in front of me available. They won't buy a product that is not available 8-) and many won't wait for the back order to be filled
4. battery life ... makes a difference if say 50% different
The reason that AMD is performing so poorly is that they misfired on several product designs. Big time.
It is interesting that you used the analogy of Android vs. Windows Phone, when a better analogy would be android vs Apple and iOS. Like Apple's superior products, Intel will be equally successful in the mobile space by offering superior CPUs and SoCs.
Here's further commentary from marsavian:
These clowns obviously think Intel only sells one cpu sku ;-). Intel can and will easily add low power Ivy Bridge/Haswell Celerons that are 50-100% faster than A15 but still fit in nicely with their present cpu price structures because the top line Core skus are 400-500% faster than A15 so there is plenty of room to fit these cheap Celerons in without affecting the price of the higher performance skus. Anybody would think ARM was a serious threat lol but I have always told you bashers it was no contest on the performance front and performance has and will always determine cpu price.
oh and cost will soar for arm's friends as fabs like tsmc and gf make transition to 28nm and below. Prices for mobile products will rise as a result giving Intel further advantage.
Unlike all the ARM foundries all the FABS that are producing Medfield/Clovertrail 32nm wafers would have been paid for by 32nm Sandy Bridge. All the 22nm FABS that will porduce BayTrail would have been paid for by Ivy Bridhge and Haswell. I can't think of a more cheaper way to get a leading edge wafer and as ARM is at least one generation behind prcoess wise what Intel is using on its mobile prioducts is leading edge for ARM vendotrs ;-).
[and the following:
- Intel does not have to license from arm
- Intel does not have to license the graphics as they have their own (starting with Merrifield and baytrail)
- Intel does not have to license baseband from qualcomm as they have their own
- Intel manufacture their own chips instead of fabless companies like qcom and nvida who have to pay fabs like tsmc
- Intels products are better so they can price at premium]
Read anandtech's new article. google with "anandtech power analysis"
The trend is obvious... as arm tries to improve the performance on their chips, their power consumption increases. On the other hand, Intel is lowering the power consumption on their new chips while still improving performance.
As it stands right now, the Cortex A15 (arm's latest and greatest) is consuming more power than a 5-year old Intel low-end Atom (Clover Trail) manufactured on a 3 year old process, and with only a small lead in performance. When Intel releases their Clover Trail+ in a few months, we will all of a sudden find that Clover Trail+ is beating the A15 in BOTH power consumption and performance. The new dual-core medfield will do the same in the smartphone market. What we will see is, smartphones with medfield inside will outperform arm's phones in both performance and battery life. Check the latest Antutu benchmark leaks for proof of this.
Further off, in 2014, Intel is all set with Merrifield (for smartphones) and Bay Trail (for tablets) on 22nm FinFET process. In the cores, Broadwell will be ready on 14nm FinFET. Meanwhile, arm's fab are struggling to get to 20nm planar! There are serious questions on whether armv8 (A57) will make it's way into the market by 2015 let alone 2014.
They have taken over the AnandTech comments section of the article and now they are copying-and-pasting those comments on this board. Most of the comments now revolve around how Intel can't compete in price. In the next few months that myth too will be busted. Shorts are running scared.
The fact is, the AnandTech results are a MAJOR surprise to all the arm fannies and INTC shorts out there. All the power advantage they thought arm had has disappeared in thin air.
I think you misunderstood the author..."it looks like Cortex A15 is really in a league of its own when it comes to power consumption." is NOT a compliment! He is saying compared to Clover Trail, tegra3 and Snapdragon, it is in a league of its own...meaning it consumes way TOO MUCH power - BAD!
"At the end of the day, I'd say that Intel's chances for long term success in the tablet space are pretty good. Intel still needs a Nexus, iPad or other similarly important design win, but it should have the right technology to get there by 2014."
What do you mean 2014? There are already 10.6 Windows 8 tablets out there. Clover Trail+ will further improve performance. Also if next Medfield scored 31,612 on AnTuTu benchmark, that beats any arm tablets out there...why can't it go into a 7" tablet? I think we see a lot of Intel-based equivalent Nexus's and iPads in 2013.
Daniel Berenbaum, MKM Partners: “We don’t expect a lot in the way of truly innovative products,” he writes. The most interesting part of the show, in his view, is “INTC’s aggressive schedule, with five investor sessions on the calendar – we sense the company is moving toward either a more aggressive reference design program or perhaps even considering manufacturing certain end products itself in order to take full advantage of the compute capabilities in its CPUs.” In the very next breath, Berenbaum writes “We also see a foundry relationship with Apple (AAPL) as increasingly likely [for Intel], as it would be beneficial to both parties. Investor pushback has been along the lines of potential capex requirements from an AAPL foundry arrangement. Our calculations suggest that even half of AAPL’s A6 production would only require to 40k-50k wafers per year, and absorb 1%-2% of INTC’s capacity.”
After the release of next medfield and Clover Trail+ products, the headlines will be:
1) Convertible PCs with Clover Trail+ are cannabilizing tablets
2) Intel's latest phones have better battery life than arm's
Look at the results from anandtech. The Cortex A-15 consumes way more power than Intel's 5-year old Atom with a slight advantage in performance. Peak TDP for the A15 is a whopping 8W! Where is the power consumption advantage that we keep hearing about arm ???
At this rate where do you think the power consumption will be for armv8 with 64-bit? Intel products are BEATING arm in consumption now!!! Intel's power consumption LEAD will further EXTEND with Merrifield, Bay Trail and Broadwell.
"INTC may never get a strong foothold in the phone space"
I think you are wrong...check out the latest Antutu benchmarks for the next Medfield...more than double the score of any arm-base phones
and Merrifield is coming
- latest from anandtech shows 5-year old architecture Atom (Clover Trail) beating Snapdragon S4 handily in performance....AND the kicker here is in terms of power consumption, the Clover Trail is on par with Snapdragon S4!
- The very latest Cortex A15 (Samsung Exynos 5) can fairly beat Clover Trail, but kicker here is it comsumes way more power to do so! This means Samsung will have to significantly lower the voltage/clock speeds in order to get it into a smartphone which will in turn hurt performance.
Here's what's coming at arm and friends:
- Leaked Antutu benchmarks for next dual-core Medfield shows it scores more than twice that of the Samsung S3 and Snapdragon S4 phones. And we are not even talking about Merrifield yet! We should see the new Medfield at World Mobile Congress in February.
- Clover Trail+ and sub-10W Ivy Bridge Y parts coming in 1st quarter. From results of anandtech, CT+ should match or beat the Samsung Exynos 5. We will see soon enough. The sub-10W Ivy Bridge Y will definitely beat out the Exynos 5 in performance and will allow for high end hybrid PCs that will be much more thinner and lighter than what we see today.
- Haswell comes in mid 2013, which will further allow OEMs to build more sleeker ultrabooks and hybrid PCs. Battery life will be double what we find in ultrabooks today.
Next year Intel will have Merrifield and Bay Trail and Broadwell....
Phalgun Shenoy | January 4, 2013 | 0 Comments
The smartphone market is conquered by ARM processors. Majority of handheld devices out there make use of ARM processor. As we all know, Intel is the world leader in semiconductor processors for laptops and desktops, but the same hasn’t been the case in handheld device segment, mostly due to the power consumption and heat dissipation issues. Hand held devices are supposed to be small, and that means the processor should be designed in such a way that it gives optimal performance which consuming less power and as a result dissipate less heat.
Intel does have the R&D capable of developing such kind of processors and it is working hard towards attaining its aim of eventually conquering the smartphone sector someday. Intel is broadening its x86 architecture to reach the mobile world. The company is making all sorts of efforts to get popular in the smartphone industry, and they have launched 2 Intel powered devices till now. The first one was the Intel Atom Medfield based Intel AZ210 which was sold in various countries by the name of Xolo X900 and Orange San Diego. The device packed in a 1.6 GHz processor, and the second Intel smartphone was from Motorola, called as Motorola Razr I, and this device packed in a 2 GHz Intel Atom processor. 2 GHz is very impressive, in fact it was the first time that a phone had packed such a powerful single-core chip and also first Intel powered Motorola.
Months have passed and after several months of R&D, Intel is back with latest Atom chip designed for mobile operations. The thing about Intel Atom chips is that they have the performance advantage and all they have to tackle is the power consumption level, and that’s exactly what the company is working hard on. An Intel engineer visited AnandTech along with two widely available devices, a Dell XPS 10 tablet based on Qualcomm’s Snapdragon S4 with Krait (dual-core, 28nm), and a Nexus 10 running on Cortex A15-based Exynos 5 Dual chip (dual-core, 32nm). The engineer proved that Intel was indeed working day and night and has finally sorted out the power consumption issue. The two devices were compared against Intel’s own solution, the Atom Z2760, and the conclusion is in Intel’s favor.
As we know, Intel’s Atom architecture is a 5 year old architecture. Despite its age, the Atom is significantly faster than Krait, but when it comes to power consumption, Atom’s figures are in par with Krait’s figures. Intel is going to refresh its Atom processors with 22nm core soon, after which things will start getting interesting.
When the Atom Z2760 is compared with Cortex A15, Atom loses in the performance arena. Again, Cortex A15 is a very good performer, but very bad in power consumption, in fact it is not meant to deliver its full potential in smartphones due to its power hungry nature. ARM suggests manufacturers to use the big.little configuration, which uses A15 and A7 cores adjacently.
Do you think Intel will be able to conquer smartphone field?