Man, I jumped in for a quick flip and refuse to sell. It appears I am a bagholder for now. The EOD selling was relentless. Fundamentally, it appears to be a value play, but the market and short sellers can be very cruel sometimes. Hopefully next week brings better luck.
I am with you man. I am long a few shares at $1.60. I am thinking of dropping it. The recent action doesn't make sense to me. They seem to still be growing nicely and their balance sheet seems good based on my limited knowledge. Any idea has to why it keeps dropping? Is this company known to dump shares or what? Looking at the chart it seems like if I hold long enough it usually gets back to the $1.60 area but I am getting extremely concerned.
I found one Tampa article and it didn't mention "elevated levels." It said a couple was suing because of the 60 minutes broadcast and they had some flooring that had a strong smell. I call them hot coffee chasers. All new flooring to include carpeting can have a funky smell for a few weeks.
Google this Lumber Liquidators A Value Play? More Likely A Value Trap
Can anyone confirm or deny a couple of this guys statements?
"6- Lumber Liquidators already admitted SSS were down 24% since the 60Min piece ran so it is clear it resonated with consumers but it is too early to tell if this is a temporary thing or a new trend."
I thought SSS were down 7.6% or something around that number since the 60 minutes broadcast. Has something else came out?
"Early tests in Tampa by testing services found each home with $LL laminate had elevated formaldehyde levels in it. The question now is, “what’s next?” What is Lumber Liquidators going to do? Since we have no idea, we cannot place a value on this"
When did this happen? I remember some Tampa news regarding a lawsuit but I don't remember any tests being ran.
Can anyone clarify these two statements? I am thinking more BS, but I could be very wrong.
Yeah this has been bad. I don't know anything about that Tilson guy but I wish someone would investigate him. His articles are beyond bear fodder. He is a real snake with his hyperbole filled articles.
You may be correct but I have zero issues with where the CEO traded the stock. They want to sell high and buy low just like everyone else. In hindsight he looks like a master trader. It wasn't like he sold and then the allegations came down the next day. The guy sold his shares in 2013. We are now in 2015. I am jelous I didn't short when he sold.
LOL, why ask that on here? You know these guys will tell you to get a gas mask. It is rediculous on this board. I come for a good laugh now. This flooring is no where near the danger level of the other toxins we smell everyday. Dang you smokers I have to walk past!
It is amazing the company hasn't been more aggressive towards the critics. I imagine there is some truth to everything or they would have come out guns a blazing with counter lawsuits. I have zero doubts they have been treated unfairly and that is why CARB didn't list them specifically on the file on their website. I bet many other companies flooring and furnature fail under the same testing procedures. Assuming everything stays as is and CARB does not pull the product which I highly doubt they would/will. Where do you see this stock trading pre-earnings?
Have you seen the test results? I have only seen a couple of results on the Internet and they were all clear.
I am long a little but definitely not a bulltard like some. I see the very high risk in this play, but from an attempted unbiased opinion (again, I am a little long), this article should hurt this guy. He did indeed say last week that he was moving on regarding this p$@$ing competition. If so, why did he post another article restating what he has already posted a few times? I would think that would be seen by bulls and bears as desperate. We shall see tomorrow I suppose. I really wish LL had a way to go after this guy. My problem with him is greed. He slams LL several times in that article with comments such as:
1) "If I'm right that the company has been knowingly putting untold numbers of American families at risk" -- Tilson
2) "Why would they do something so immoral and potentially destructive?" -- Tilson
3) "While for the health and safety of Lumber Liquidators' customers I wish the company would stop selling what I believe is a dangerous product," -- Tilson
I would ask the same questions to him. If this was such a huge danger and he has known for a long time then why didn't he use his resources to slam them earlier and protect all of these poor families? Because he timed it perfectly to benefit his short position and he knows it is not a risk. We deal with factories, vehicle exhaust, cigarette smoke, particle board/MDF furniture, OSD sheets in our attics, and who knows what else on a daily basis. I would bet even if it was a risk to families he would have still done the same thing and waited on his timing. Karma is a B Mr. Tilson.
I agree with your point but no one has come forward as far as I have heard. I have been watching the classaction website (you can google it) and it was panicky with people ording tests a couple of weeks ago. All of them stated they would post their result as soon as they got them. Only one person posted their results and they were normal. She installed one of the flooring in question the day before the 60 minutes broadcast so it was in peek offgassing mode. That leads me to believe the others came back negative because had they been positive their would have been more panic and people would have been comforting each other. I am a little defensive because I am down a bit :-)...my on fault! GL to you.
You and that bull are both annoying. We all get it you are short and he is long. Who cares if CARB tested the flooring? Have they forced a recall or put anything on their website besides this document?
Would they have uploaded that document and made this statement after the 60 minutes report if they were worried about people getting sick from this flooring? "As a general rule, we do not recommend removing a flooring product unless there are noticeable health effects (i.e. nose and throat irritation, a burning sensation of the eyes, wheezing, and difficulty in breathing), and other measures (see below) taken to alleviate them
have failed and there is good reason to believe the flooring is the source of the problem."
Have you heard of anyone coming forth with any sicknesses since the guys started selling this cheap #$%$ years ago? You will always have a few people looking to make a buck...just like when they spill hot cofee on themselves from McD, but the majority will test their floors and move on. I don't know how this turns out but I know reading that Tilson article that he is a snake. If he was worried about the world he would have forced this issue legally years ago. He is worried about manipulating a bunch of traders (short and long) and is out to destroy this LL company. Just my thoughts.
It is funny how wallstreet cares more about this then anyone. It is barely known by anyone outside of wallstreet. I have yet to see one case of someone's flooring testing positive. It has become a #$%$ competion between management and Tilson. I wish the chairman had taken the higher road on Friday. I have zero doubts this Tilson guy is a snake. If he cared about anything outside of money he would have went mainstream with this story long ago. I know he has done some short seller slides, but if this is so dangerous wouldn't he want to save the children walking and crawling on these floors? It isn't an issue...at least no worse than anything else we walk on or through on a given day (i.e. other particle board furnature, cigarette smoke, BPs oil spill, factories, etc). We will see how it turns out.
I would invite CARB to go with them to the plants to test the products and factory conditions. That would have been the first thing I would have done. An if the findings were unacceptable, then suspend the factories. That would demonstrate to shareholders full transparency. I think this management is just a bit in over their heads. Another issue I have is the Chairman should have not gone on TV. Why does he need to go on after the CEO did a good job of calming things down? That makes no sense to me.
Concentrations of 100 ppm are immediately
dangerous to life and health (IDLH).
Note: The National Institute for Occupational
Safety and Health (NIOSH) considers 20 ppm of
formaldehyde to be IDLH. What was the destructed levels?