Alibaba IPO uses a structure called a VIE (Variable Interest Enterprise). The US stockholders have no direct ownership in the assets in Alibaba. This structure has been consistently used by the Chinese to steal western investors money.
For example Sino Tech Energy used the same structure to go public in the NASDAQ in 2012, Like Alibaba the management and owners of Sino Tech were also high ranking officials in the Chinese Communist Party.(CCP) There is ample evidence the company was just a large cash transfer. The company quickly went dark without using the IPO's issue for any company pursuit. The SEC alleged the company simply transferred the funds to the owners or a CCP controlled company. It is still alleged because the Chinese government has thwarted any efforts to investigate the company. The company and its owners are doing quite well in China today.
Three years ago Allbaba transferred the Pay Pal equivalent of the business to another company. Yahoo found out about it through a fax press release service. Alibaba never recorded anything for transferring the business.
XiN is a Chinese real estate company. Real Estate is allegedly a booming business in China. Sam Bass was a heavy backer of the company when it went public The company has never had a financial scandal. It trades on the NYSE at about a 20 % of discount of price/cash. The market is not even willing to bid the company to it cash balance.
Longtop was a darling of the New China. The company developed the premiere banking software for the People's Republic of China. It seemed like a license to print money. The company was sitting on huge cash balances. The auditors one day decided to confirm the cash balances with province headquarters at the bank rather than at the local bank. The cash balances were bogus. Not only was the company a fraud the bank was too. The company went dark, taking every cent of investor's money. They are still doing quite well. It took a visit between President Obama and Chairman Xi Jinping to allow the SEC to see audit work papers of the company.
You think you bought the hottest entry into the world's largest consumer market. Wrong, you really own nothing. This model has been repeated hundreds of times in the People's Republic of China. The company is controlled a few Chinese nationals who are beyond the supervision of the SEC. Those nationals are in turn beholding to the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) These Chinese always turn out badly. The Chinese IPOs are designed to enrich the sovereign fund of the CCP. The Chinese are very good and experienced at running this scam. If you are long on this stock, kiss your money good bye.
The ADS traded as Xinyuan Real Estate Company are shares in a Cayman Island Company. That company owns virtually nothing. It does not have Chinese subsidiaries and does not own anything in the People's Republic of China. It has a modest cash balance. It does have contracts and agreements that in a non-Chinese lawyer's opinion allows it to control the real estate company in China. The Chinese government has repeatedly stated the agreements and contracts are not enforceable in China. No attempt to enforce these agreements and contracts has ever been successful.
What a ADS shareholder owns is only based on the goodwill of the CEO of Xinyuan, who in turn is beholding to the Chinese Communist Party. It could all disappear tomorrow without notice.
Sorry, I was totally wrong. When I originally post I thought Xinyuan had some value. I was wrong. It is worthless. In my defense an event I never thought would happen occurred. Go figure. In China figure out the most unlikely outcome to predict the future.
Yesterday, the SEC bounced the Chinese Big 4. So, this listing, and every US-listed mainland Chinese listing, is worthless. Even one with an allegedly genius Chairman.
Well, I have better things to do. I am out.
The idea of leverage is solid and basic 101 corporate finance. To spout this is evidence of Chairman Young’s genius is slanderous to his intellect. Misapplication of leverage principles have been disastrous. My example of Jeff Skilling was not an off-the-cuff choice. Muddling the issue is certainly beneficial to the argument with no substantive support. Your obfuscation is a common ploy to observers of Xinyuan. It is the only possibility.
Please keep posting. One of your post serves my purpose better than a hundred of my posts.
The market works on this principle – money talks and BS walks. Despite all company’s efforts they have not delivered the goods. The P/E sucks today. It sucked four years ago. And, it sucked ever day in between. If this was a western company, there would have been a different approach many years ago. But, it is a Chinese company not operating to the benefit of its shareholders.
II think you are being too hard on yourself. Moron, a largely discredited term, is a term used to describe a mild intellectual disability. You have done yourself no favors by posting a one sentence response heavily relying on reflective pronouns. Such a construct is indicative of a 3rd or 4th level writing skill, but I do not agree your post is enough to conclude you are a moron. Cheer up friend and do not be so hard are yourself. Try to put two sentences together expanding on the same idea. Use of reflective pronouns leads to miscommunication. Dictionaries are excellent sources to expand your vocabulary.ed
Are you unable to deal with more than one possible outcome? There is only BS or not BS. If so, it explains you resorting to slander rather reasoning in your endeavors..
What is there to discuss? You and your supporting articles are applying western ideas to a Chinese company. In the west a company focuses on maximizing shareholder's value. This company should be trading at some where between 10 to 15 per share. It did for a short time after its IPO but has never approached a reasonable valuation. The trading history is a quarter-end pump and dump. Founder or not, Chairman Young would have bounced many years ago at any other company. Chairman Young is a genius. He has run his company ably by supporting the greater good of China by diligently following the dictates of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). Investors just do not give a hoot about the sovereign fund of the CCP unless leads to superior profits. The business hall of fame is full of business genius who could not raise a penny. Jeff Skilling is the most immediate example. If Chairman Young is delusional enough to think a non-commodity stock without long-term valuation growth is a good thing, that is reason enough to sell.
Your search for answers might encompass this board. You starting points is wrong so you will not understand. You assume this is a western company. You assume its primary goal is to maximize shareholder return. You assume the primary concern of management is the operation of the company. You could not be more wrong.
The company is, as is all activity in China, under the direct control of the CCP. If they think about you, the shareholders, they view you as sub-human. You are western and not Han Chinese, as all good Chinese know you are not a human being. Further, you are the worse of sub-humans, a capitalists. You likely achieved your wealth through pimping your mother or sister or selling drugs to all the other western drug addicts. If you lose money, it is just.
Want proof? Well if the history of the trading price is not proof enough. Consider who benefits most from moving resources through a double-tax situation to invest in the United States and borrowing unneeded funds at absurd rates? Why that be the Chinese balance-of-payment and with a clear benefit to the sovereign fund of the CCP.
Newbies, you are wasting your time. This stock is not trading upon macro trends or institutional volume. The market is all for the benefit of the CCP. The company will disappear in a cloud of dust as soon as the benefit to the party changes. If you invest in Xinyuan do not invest any more than you can lose, because some day this stock will disappear. When it disappear will not have a predictive event. The United States could get into a shooting war with China and the stock will still trade. Or, we could fly one too many planes through the South China Sea and it could disappear. Who knows? Someone in Beijing who ends up in the gulag, if they talk.
The last group is the short sellers. This stock, as many Chinese stock, is shooting fish in a barrel. I am not sure the profits would change without a quarter-end Chicken Little dance but why leave anything to chanc
There are three type of posters to this board – wǔmáo, short sellers, and newbies wishing to buy the most undervalued stock on the market. Only the wǔmáo and short sellers efforts are justified.
Westernized wǔmáo, 50 Cent Party, or wǎng píng yuán, ape who comments on the internet, is internet commenter. This is respected profession in China, like doctor, lawyer, or CPA. For those at the peak of the profession, those employed by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), a certification test and education achievement is required. The wǔmáo has one focus. By any means possible, destroy any information threatening the stability of China. In the west, we call this type of information the truth.
The company certainly has employed wǔmáo who post to this board. Using wǔmáo would be significantly cheaper IR than an actual IR function. Their efforts are beneficial to the wǔmáo, as they are paid on a per post basis.
The newbies come to the board looking for information after stumbling across this super value stock. They have run the analysis. The stock is trading at significant discount to comparables. It is selling an in-demand product in a closed market with 1.3 billion potential customers. It has a great balance sheet with a Big 4 auditor, and until recently a western CFO from a prestigious US school. It has consistently delivered earnings. The company pays a regular quarterly dividend and often participates in stock buy-backs. What is there not to like?
The newbie might even buy at that point or continue their due diligence. However, a couple things become evident. The company generally trades in a narrow range, except at quarter-end. The company, although with sterling balance sheet, has borrowed money twice at absurd cost of capitals without any clear need. The Chinese company, in allegedly the hottest market in world, has taken on projects in the United States.
The context is the guy was giving a "everyone needs to be a team player or leave" speech. There might be some back story that CEO had a hard-on for the guy prior to the meeting. Now, the guy apologizes? Obviously, the guy cannot stay on task. Not an enviable trait in a CEO. I think the company would get a good pop by firing the guy.
Wrong, there are Mainland Chinese companies that have been de-listed. Some where in the fog of my memory, I think I read 135 spread against multiple exchanges, including Hong Kong and Toronto. Only a faction of those de-listing were attributable to actual or alleged fraud. The US companies de-listed during the same period for actual or alleged fraud is certainly much larger in an order of magnitude. There are many reasons a company can be de-listed, actual or alleged fraud is a small percentage.
There is most certainly been fraud allegations against XIN. The most recent ones were in conjunction the the Longtop pancake. As the western-eccentric shorts like to think, rather than giving proper credit to the mainland EW firm, Longtop's demise was large cash balances. So the thieving shorts, started irresponsible campaigns against any Chinese company with a large cash balance. They are lazy bums that focus on low hanging fruit. You will note this company cratered at a absurd valuation .
Please get your story correct. China has a lot to do to get on track. False accounting and frauds happen with a much higher degree of magnitude in the United States. They really cannot focus on those things they need to fixed with lazy, thieving shorts spouting unsupportable information. The Chinese need to fix their financial and regulatory systems. The VIE structure has to be fixed. Failure to do so robs the Chinese people of their income capabilities.
The bedazzler swoops in entertaining us with a "you too" taunt. It seem they would be more worthy, a paper tiger.
But in the final analysis that is the best they can do as their goal is lies, deception, and fabrication and the avoidance of anything that might resemble honest work.
Give him a heedful note
For I mine eyes will rivet to his face,
And after we will both our judgments join
In censure of his seeming.
That is the best you can do, "you too"? I am "more mature than you arguments" failed in second grade in my hood. Are they still going strong in your domicile?
Again, entertained by the bedazzler, a quick explosion of phrases that seem like they should make sense but because the goal depends on lies, fabrication, and deception really do not. Karma, Karma, Karma, bedazzler you are stealing and hurting a poor and humble people.
What the heck does a NetFlix short post have to do with a Chinese real estate developer?
Perhaps the poster made a mistake NFLX and XIN trading symbols are soooooo close?
Maybe because mainland Chinese stock posting threads are infested with bottom-feeding, short thieves? Lazy traders only focusing on stealing others value.
Go away, you are not only stealing the stockholders' value but you are hurting the income capability of the poor and humble Chinese people.
Interesting you find a story about an underage female being subject to an incestuous relationship by her father as funny?
I get a gaggy sensation from your confession.. I am appalled by your depravity.
Wow, what a flurry of non sequitur. You have managed to connect a bunch of phrases that you clearly have no understanding of the true meaning together and
completely misrepresent everything. Wow, them are some big phrase, Should I think, "I don't understand them but I don't want to look like a dip stick so I will do my cattle imitation and follow along?"
Human's act to further self-interest. To expected otherwise is folly. So, what is the self-interest here. Improve seeking alpha's editorial control? Improve the quality of Seeking alpha's author? To instill panic in holders of Chinese companies resulting in the thief of value by a short?
Other positions of self-interest is possible with large prescription-level doses of medication. To further the growth of a delusional ego? To keep obsessively scratching the scab on one's arm?
Sure, when lies, deceit, and fabrications won't fill the bill and faced with the troubling prospect of actually doing some work just resort to slander.
Go get a life, Francis and stop bottom feeding by robbing others of value though slander and deceit. You have no soul and you are hurting poor and humble people. Karma. Karma. Karma.
By the way, you managed to make a post without a recognizable English sentence. No wonder you have to rely on your scheme, perhaps a community college?