As Greg Maffei said on TV a month or so ago, those buybacks are returning cash to the investor!! The stock was $3.60 then, do you feel all that cash in your pocket? The only people getting anything returned to them are the insiders who've sold the stock, and award cheap shares to each other. I'm long my last 40,000 shares, but sold $3.50 Jan calls 6 months ago on 20,000 and got $.27/share and they'll probably expire mid-January. I'll probably do it again, selling June $3.50s again. Just a bunch of financial engineers running the company now starting with Malone. I miss Mel Karmazin, smart guy, took the money and ran.
I went to Yahoo Groups and went under Mining and Minerals Exploration but could not find Western Lithium Select? Was that the right category?
Hey....I have been long, with Budman, when we were the only guys talking at 14 cents/share. We hung in together and lived through it, so I'd like to be let in. My Yahoo ID is cjclink
Let me know how I can get into the Select chat room, if that's possible. Certainly, I'm long, still with about 60,000 shares, although I took quite a bit of profit in the $.90/sh range. I've made more than I can ever lose. I thought there would be a news release on the mud sales, and all I know is that the German plant is running. I think the decline is due to the oil price, suspicions that the frackers aren't as lucrative anymore, and just lack of a press release from the company.
Well...many of us bought in at 14 cents/share, and sold in the 70 cent area. Pumpers are not, we made a lot of money....only a 5:1 gain..
That's about right. I made a great deal of money on Dendreon after FDA approval. Kept about 20% of it, and got hit hard by the $20/sh loss in Aug. 2011, and got out at $10. In regards to litigation, I filed my losses in the last class action and got only a tiny fraction of my losses back. These guys on the board settle for chicken__t with the attorneys, and the shareholders get chicken__t in return!!
Let's take a different approach on this. Does it not bother you that we have acquired so many of these companies and have not been able to make them a success, at least from the standpoint of their impact on the stock? When you are still working at P&G, with a nice income, sitting on lots of Profit Sharing and perhaps options, it is easy to be satisfied with things. That changes after you retire, must diversify, and need more yield than a 3% dividend.
I was around for many of the acquisitions, the marketing "pitches" to mgt, and internal developments(Pringles and others), on my original list of companies which have been sold (Folgers, Millstone, IAMs, Pringles, etc). it is disheartening to see Smuckers, Kellogs, etc. all touting how the very same revenue and profits are now helping their stocks.
You don't want a bigger dividend because you have to pay taxes on it? Making investment decisions, not taking some profits, etc. because you must pay taxes is a fools logic. I know plenty of investors who were sitting on huge profits in 2001, 2008, and didn't sell to avoid taxes. I guess it's good to be rich on paper, rather than give Ceaser his 20% in taxes. Plenty of them must have felt much better being 90% poorer after the crashes..... I'll take the dividend and pay the tax. Yes, like buybacks, this deal gives us a bigger share of P&G. Many company stocks do not move up after buybacks as the market just offsets it with a lower multiple. Did you notice how the stock moved after the Duracell announcement? Finally, I have diversified quite a bit out of P&G stock, and those investments have done much better. I think you'll admit that this wasn't the best decade for P&G stock for the ordinary investor unless the 3% dividend is you standard of happiness, your a retiree 10s of 1000s of shares.
Folgers, Millstone, Pringles, IAMS, Duracell, can't remember if there were more......Reverse Morris Trusts, the opportunity to exchange for another stock (I should have exchanged all P&G possible for Smuckers stock!!). This may be tax advantage for the company, but the shareholders should have gotten special dividends. We buy some of these companies at high prices and sell them low. Everyone of the marketing gurus who talked the company into buying were promoted, I guarantee that. Shareholders are left holding the bag.
Of course they don't want to pay retail inestors a dividend. But, notice that the board is NEVER satisfied with buybacks for themselves like retail investors are supposed to be. Check Insider Transactions over the last few years. After the buybacks, they dilute ad hand themselves 10,000-50,000 shares at a time at $0 to $5/sh cost called "incentive options". Wow....with 10,000 free shares, today you're instantly $180,000 richer before you walk into your office!! A real incentive option is given at current price, then you work hard to get it up from there. These ultra cheap options are like candy to them. Check insider transactioins and look at the option excercises and sales over the last year, even just a few weeks after Ferguson.....amazing displays of PATIENCE like they expect of us!! Finally,, check CNBC's discussion of buybacks by Kevin O'Leary who is a way better investor/trader than anyone here. Buybacks are for suckers....see IBM and Cisco.
There were several well known investors and analysts on CNBC this week discussing the virtures or downside of buybacks. Nearly all agreed that the primary beneficaries are the boards because they buyback stock and follow it with dilution/stock issuance to hand themselves 100s of thousands of free or discounted shares. Cisco did this for years while handing its executives gobs of free shares. Like IBM, Cisco is a fraction of what it was during the buybacks. I'll take a dividend.
I hope you are right. I've been feasting on lower prices after earnings for years, and when it gets to $18, I'm always expecting more, but mgt finds a way to screw it up. With 11,000 shares, I'm certainly hopeful that you are right and the stock runs to $20, but I always sell calls on 30% of my holdings and have never regretted it. I was fairly disgusted when the COO sold at $16 about a week after Ferguson, then the CEO dumped at $17.91 about a wk later. So, I've gotten smarter about Taser over the years, and taken in profits or call money when things feel "exuberant". Taser has always given me a chance to buy back lower, sorry to say that. Again, let's hope for the best.
you would think that the forecast for future quarters would be good given all the orders that they are lining up. But, we don't know the profit margins and Taser's R&D investment (see what happened to Facebook stock yesterday after reporting monster earnings but forecasted high future investment). I will sell some out of the money January calls this afternoon. If the stock rises, I can always buy them back or let them expire. If it goes down, at least there is cash is in my pocket.
One way to navigate through these "sell on the news" events is to sell long calls when everyone is exuberant. A few days ago, I got $8-9$/share for mid-2015 strike prices of $82.50 and $85.00. With a few hundered or a thousand shares, that puts a lot of cash in your pocket, and you can sleep easily through the night suring these selloffs. Facebook will go back up, but in the meantime, I can keep all the call money and let it expire, or if they calls get cheap enough, buy em' back and do it again on the next runup. You make money either way.