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Nokia Corporation Message Board

clcellve 147 posts  |  Last Activity: Dec 13, 2014 8:48 AM Member since: Jul 28, 2012
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  • clcellve clcellve Dec 13, 2014 8:48 AM Flag

    In addition to Nokia, and some other investments, I follow Intel pretty closely. They don't talk about security much, but I know Intel is very interested in and invested in security. I hope Intel and Nokia are collaborating on security. It would be all too easy for Nokia to work on wireless security in their functional silo, and for Intel to work on security in their silo, and maybe the operating people to look at software security (Microsoft, Apple, Google/Android).

    If these entities work separately, it could result in gaps in security. If these entities work together, with overlapping and complimentary security measures, that helps everyone, including their own products/standing - there are too many black eyes recently stemming from digital security breeches - not good for tech companies in general, not good for users.

    They all need to work together. I hope Intel's historic relation with MSFT will result in a good security collaboration between the two; same with Intel and Nokia, with their joint R&D center in England, and even between MSFT and Nokia - they all know each other pretty well - there's no excuse for them to not address security issues in a coordinated, unified, manner.

    We'll see if they do the smart thing.

  • Reply to

    Options Expiration

    by clcellve Dec 12, 2014 9:57 AM
    clcellve clcellve Dec 12, 2014 2:36 PM Flag

    Had he not stolen the cigars, he would not have been killed. Yes, it was a chain of events, and these things spin out of control.

    Two convictions on insider trading were just overturned on appeal. It is next to impossible to get a conviction on insider trading because of the way the law is written - if you or I get inside knowledge and trade on it, we're toast. If a Wall Street person, versed in the finer points of the law, gets information in the course of his everyday business, it's all to easy for him to walk the fine line and make a ton of money on non-public information, and get away with complete impunity.

    White collar crime, street crime. The two are treated very differently. Too often, the more blatant the white collar crime, the less the chance for a conviction.

    Who went to jail for the financial crash?

    Steal cigars - oops, we shot him. A tragic and regrettable event. Oh well, it was legal. Steal money from the general investing public - perfectly legal, sorry if you don't like it. But, you can do something about it - you can give $500 million to your favorite political party and get the "judges" you want appointed, and the SEC commissioners you want appointed, and the laws you want written the way you want.

    In the paper recently - a majority of Americans no longer believe in the "American Dream" - they believe the deck is stacked against them. They're not wrong.

  • clcellve clcellve Dec 12, 2014 12:43 PM Flag

    Detachable screen and a separate number pad, and I'd buy it in a minute.

  • Reply to

    Options Expiration

    by clcellve Dec 12, 2014 9:57 AM
    clcellve clcellve Dec 12, 2014 12:41 PM Flag

    And month after month, the share price goes down at options expiration dates. Not every month, but regularly, predictably. You're either OK with manipulation, or have you head buried in the sand.

    Little kids do that - they think if they close their eyes, you'll go away. Well, it doesn't work for them, and it won't work for you. Open your eyes.

    I'm sorry if the idea of market manipulation doesn't comport with your idea of how markets work.

    There is no such thing as a "free market". All markets have rules, and those rules can favor one group over another, or treat participants with some measure of fairness.

    And this is with options expiration - if you want, we can talk about how High Frequency Traders legally steal from you every time you buy or sell a stock. Legal. Stealing from you. Someone steals a pack of cigars from a store in Ferguson, MO, and 10 minutes later they're dead. HFT traders steal every minute of every trading day and they get rich. Legally.

    Who owns this country?

  • Reply to

    Options Expiration

    by clcellve Dec 12, 2014 9:57 AM
    clcellve clcellve Dec 12, 2014 11:25 AM Flag

    Lack of regulation in financial markets has a place on this board, and in public discourse. It is money out of my pocket, and yours. A post on a board like this is like a drop of water in the ocean, but as someone once said, an ocean is nothing more than a lot of drops.

    Nokia is down to $8 because of market manipulation. You can say it's down due to the general market, but there is a clear pattern, not only with Nokia, but with other companies - it doesn't happen every options expiration date with every stock, but it happens regularly, and it is clear it is often the direct result of blatant manipulation that is legal but grossly unfair to the average investor. It's legal as a direct result of the wealthy buying laws and regulations that favor them. Sorry if you don't like that idea, but denying it doesn't help matters.

    Simply put, I want my country back, and WHERE RELEVENT, I'll take a minute to make a point.

  • clcellve by clcellve Dec 12, 2014 9:57 AM Flag

    Note today is options expiration date. How many of you think the $8 options will expire "in the money".

    Hint- they won't.

    Manipulators can't manipulate beyond a certain point - if/when Nokia posts stronger profits, the share price will increase, and manipulators won't be able to stop it. d

    However, beyond that, all of you "free market, get government off of our backs, we don't need regulations" conservatives look at the market manipulation going on today.

    All markets have rules. Government will set those rules. Right now the SEC and Congress are pretty much owned and operated by big money, and the rules favor big money. We need to get big money out of elections, so the SEC, and Congress, write rules that are fair.

    Until then, through market manipulation, you will pay user fees (essentially a tax imposed on you by the manipulators) when you participate in their market. Change it, or learn to live with it. You won't hear Fox News telling you this.

  • Reply to

    China Mobile, Nokia break LTE-A speed record

    by hooo_cares Dec 8, 2014 5:49 AM
    clcellve clcellve Dec 8, 2014 10:37 AM Flag

    Note this was a "trial". Until they show they can deploy this at a reasonable cost, on a large scale, it is a demo - something that impresses engineers. When they say this is commercially viable, at scale, and unique to Nokia technology, then I'll be impressed.

    Until then, it is a noteworthy accomplishment, but not investable. Show me the money.....

  • clcellve clcellve Dec 7, 2014 10:44 PM Flag

    Not long ago, the Russians used withholding natural gas from Ukraine as leverage against them. It won' be long before the Russians will be begging the Ukrainians to please buy their natual gas - the Russians will need the money.

    I look forward to a natural gas pipeline from Iraq, through Turkey, to Europe (OK, that's probably not practical, but one can hope). And a few more LNG terminals in Europe.

  • clcellve clcellve Dec 7, 2014 3:57 PM Flag

    Very cool - thanks! I took the liberty of copying your post - no screen name - and sent it on to some friends.

  • clcellve clcellve Dec 3, 2014 12:03 PM Flag

    Makes sense - if Huawei and ZTE are paying, they're going to want everyone else to pay, too. And Huawei has the Chinese government backing it up.

  • Reply to

    Pre-market volume 1m 200 thousand + ?

    by smithofborneo Dec 3, 2014 9:14 AM
    clcellve clcellve Dec 3, 2014 12:00 PM Flag

    Unusual volumes could be due to options expiration Dec 5 - positioning for that. Who, how, I don't know.

  • Reply to

    Yesterday's Short Attack

    by jomike05 Dec 3, 2014 7:33 AM
    clcellve clcellve Dec 3, 2014 8:54 AM Flag

    Nokia share price has a history of manipulation from option traders. They are not always successful, but they have a good track record.

    Expect to see share price fluctuation surrounding options expiration dates.

  • clcellve clcellve Dec 1, 2014 4:29 PM Flag

    If Nokia posts profits, share price will follow. In the meantime, we guess that profits in the future will increase, others guess that profits won't increase, and (as you say) that leaves a mushy middle ground for manipulation.

    When Nokia posts strong profits, manipulators can try all they want, share price will increase, based on increased earnings and probably an increased multiple.

    The ball is in Nokia's court - put up the numbers. Between now and then, we all need to go find something useful to do....

  • clcellve clcellve Nov 30, 2014 10:19 PM Flag

    Product pipeline in NSN. If there isn't one, Nokia is toast. I don't think Nokia is toast.

    And not to replay history, but it wasn't Elop's decision to go with MSFT that hurt Nokia - that decision salvaged some value in Nokia's phone business. No, it was Nokia's effort to go it alone in trying to establish an eco-system that doomed it, compounded by allowing (yes, allowing, by indulging the whims of Nokia's own self-inflicted bureaucracy) Apple to create the iPhone ahead of a comparable Nokia product. When that happened, Nokia became a commodity phone producer, and Nokia could have spend the next 5 years competing with Samsung in making Android phones, and ended up with no value whatsoever in their phone business. Ask Samsung how much money they're making on phones. The only people who make money on phones are the eco-system owners, and MSFT is still having a tough time on that.

    Yes, I realize Nokia was a $10 stock, once upon a time. It was also a $3, and less, stock, once upon a time. Now it's an $8 stock.

  • clcellve clcellve Nov 30, 2014 3:50 PM Flag

    On one hand, people who invest in stocks often buy shares in a company because they see growth/profit potential that they hope others don't see. If they see something others don't, and that "something" is really there, and others come to see it later, then the early investor can make a lot of money.

    On the other hand......

    If can be somewhat nerve wracking waiting for others to "see it" - when other investors continue to not see it for a long period of time, their lack of vision can cause an early investor to question what they see - is "it" really there? Do others see factors/variable that they've missed, factors the might cause the stock to not be worth what they believe?

    It's hard to wait for others to catch-up. Phase 1 with Nokia was waiting for others to realize that Microsoft absolutely needed mobile, and Nokia was their only path to mobile, and Microsoft had the cash to pursue what they absolutely had to pursue. And Nokia more than doubled.

    Phase 2 with Nokia - what's the value of what's left What's the potential? For those with eyes to see, the potential was there - great engineers, reasonably well led (far from perfect, but good enough), in a industry that was growing. Yes, a volatile industry, full of risks, but Nokia had a clear path forward - the people, the products, the infrastructure (patents, R&D, NSN operations). If Nokia could recalibrate and turn before another company blew them out of the water with some sort of disruptive innovation, Nokia had excellent potential.

    In increasing numbers, the investment community is starting to see that. Some analysts have made some good calls, but events like the Barron's article can only help. Now, if Nokia can continue to show steady growth/prospects, a good product pipeline, and progress on patents, then we should start seeing increasing momentum on share price.

    Its about time - it can't come soon enough for me. I was beginning to question if what I saw in Nokia was really there or not......

  • clcellve clcellve Nov 30, 2014 9:08 AM Flag

    Thanks for that item, too! Interesting. As you say, not easy to decipher...

    "Taiwan is the most important partner". Hmmmm. Taiwan is a partner with Nokia? Odd. "Nokia will jointly construct...". Again, odd - joint with who?

    I guarantee one thing - Nokia will be very careful dealing with Taiwan entities, and entities from China. It will be willing to manufacture in Taiwan and/or China, but it will not manufacture cutting edge very high tech products there. Intel also just entered into a joint chip manufacturing venture in China, and it too will be very careful about what it makes there.

    Chips have entered a new phase - today's cutting edge is manufacture at 22nm, and only a few producers can produce chips at that size. Taiwan Semiconductor is trying to produce at 16nm, but so far it's all talk, no product shipping at volume. Intel is shipping in volume at 14nm, with "tri-gate", or FinFET (3-d processing built-in). No one else has that. Intel has working prototypes at 10nm, and a roadmap to 7nm and 5nm, but I've read the leap from 10nm to 7 will be a big leap, and it not a done deal. In 2015 Intel will add LTE to 14nm, and will continue to add wireless and other functionality to their 14nm chips in 2015 and 2016. The shrink to 10nm, with full functionality, will be relatively quick.

    What happens when NSN designs telecom equipment using 14nm and 10nm chip technology, telecom equipment tuned to Intel's 14nm/10nm chips in phones? Who knows. I know this - Intel is playing catch-up on mobile, and Intel wants to get ahead of the curve. The world is going cloud (Intel's working on that, and so is Nokia - Nokia on wireless communication from devices to the cloud), and the world is going mobile. Intel has cloud expertise, Nokia has mobile expertise. Do you think it might be in their joint interest to work together?

    Oh, by the way, the new mantra at Microsoft - "Cloud first, mobile first". Microsoft might want to be involved in that process, too.....

  • clcellve clcellve Nov 30, 2014 8:45 AM Flag

    I recall reading about Quantum - on one hand, it appears to have great potential. On the other hand, a great many things have potential, relatively few reach that potential. I'm glad Nokia has a part of that effort, and I very much hope it works out, and the sooner the better.

  • clcellve clcellve Nov 30, 2014 8:34 AM Flag

    Smiith -

    Fully agree on the potential of Intel-Nokia collaboration. Re IoT - that's just me guessing....

    Intel and Nokia have some historical ties, some stronger than others. Intel did a fair amount of work with Nokia when Nokia was trying to develop its' own eco-system, an endeavor which didn't work out well for either company.

    In contrast, Intel's current core capacity in wireless comes from purchase of Infineon, a German chip company. Infineon has historic ties to Nokia, including the fact Infineon started as a division of Siemens. Let's see, what other entity are we familiar with started as a division of Siemens? NSN....

    It appears Siemens has a history of starting tech companies, then selling them, one to Intel, one (joint venture) to Nokia.

    I will guess that one reason Siemens was willing to enter a joint venture with Nokia on NSN was due to all the work Nokia engineers did with Infineon engineers. Infineon was a Siemen's startup, and Nokia was the customer with all of the wireless expertise. Who knows the specific dynamics of the relationship, but it was good enough for Siemens to enter into the joint venture with Nokia on NSN.

    Now, Siemen has stepped out of the picture, and you have Nokia working directly with Intel, and I will make a reasonable assumption that effort includes staff from Infineon. It is Infineon that is working on bringing wireless capacity (4G, Wi-Fi, LTE, and who know what else) to Intel chips, chips Intel is determined to put into a lot of mobile phones in 2015 and beyond.

    Anyway - I expect good things to come from Intel working with Nokia.

  • clcellve clcellve Nov 29, 2014 6:39 PM Flag

    Intel chips with SoC are a done deal - I think new Intel chips will do even more, and faster, and with lower power consumption than anything out there today.

    What I see Nokia doing with Intel are chips in telecom towers/modules - small, low power consumption units in high traffic areas, already a Nokia specialty. Maybe Nokia helping Intel with wireless functionality on IoT chips. Who knows - easy (but fun!) to speculate, easy to be wrong. But, I hope I'm not wrong that there is great potential when the world's greatest chip engineers collaborate with the world's greatest wireless engineers.

  • Reply to

    Barron's indicates NOK can climb 25% higher

    by amsiatech3 Nov 29, 2014 2:54 PM
    clcellve clcellve Nov 29, 2014 5:04 PM Flag

    Last week Barron's had an article that said Intel could increase 30%, and this past week Intel has gained nicely.

    I hope the Barron's article about Nokia has a similar effect on share price. That would be nice.

    It's good to see Nokia's potential get some attention - long overdue. Some herd mentality and momentum would be helpful.

    By the way, I could not access the article - it appears to be behind Barron's paywall.

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