"Does the PGN stock price have to be 25% of what NE is when the spinoff occurs"
It doesn't have to, no. When-issued trading will determine the price of the spinoff before it's actually distributed.
"The close on 7/23/14 should determine the final price."
Again, August 1st. July 23 is the record date and has nothing to do with the post-spinoff pricing.
"The split price will most likely be adjusted according to the close on 7/23/14."
August 4 is the ex-date, so the adjustment will be based on the close of trading on August 1st.
"ex- dividend date is 2 business days before the X-div date."
No. Spinoffs do not follow normal dividend rules. The ex-date is August 4th.
"X on July 18 or July 21?"
Neither. The ex-date is August 4th. Not what most investors are used to, but it is mandated by FINRA that the ex-date for spinoffs be the first trading day after the distribution date. That's why the company warned shareholders that anyone who sells their NE shares before August 4th will also be selling their right to the distribution.
"the market has placed no value on the transaction as reflective in the stock price and this has been born out in my discussions with traders, asset managers and analysts."
All world-class financial minds, no doubt. And how are they going to explain that the Asterias shares have no value when they begin trading WI for actual money?
"The value of the transaction is to convoluted to be used to determine value so they left it out of their metrics."
Even if they all put their giant financial brains together? And you help?
"Geron shareholders will be recieving stock and later BTX warrants for the Asterias A shares that have an rough estimated value by me of Aprox. .20 per share based on AST filings. "
Wait a minute -- just two sentences previous, you said that the deal was so convoluted that traders, asset managers and analysts couldn't determine the value. And now you say Asterias has a value of 20 cents per share. You are so much smarter than all the traders and asset managers and analysts -- that you say you talked to but didn't really -- that only YOU can come up with a value for the Asterias shares? Why didn't you tell all those financial people what the value is when you were pretending to talk to them?
"Will not affect the price of Geron post trans action"
Yes, it will. On the morning of the ex-date previous day's closing price quote will be reduced by the proportional amount of the previous day's closing price of Asterias, assuming the proportional amount equals one penny or more.
tazamatic, who else have you pretended to talk to but didn't really? Anyone interesting? Anyone who actually has a name?
You can be sure the May 28th-fixated will be back. Maybe not repeating their ignorance of the record date, but with new and equal baloney, pressing their cases with the fullest measure of ignorance they can muster.
And probably with new screen IDs to help them forget their past stupidity.
High-larious, ain't it?!
"this is not a cash divedend"
Makes no difference if it's a cash dividend or stock.
"Geron has been trading with a 0 value placed on the BTX deal"
The BTX warrants will be awarded to Asterias shareholders, not Geron shareholders. As for the Asterias spinoff, the Asterias shares will be trading on a when-issued basis before the distribution is made, and that's where the dollar value will come from for the price adjustment to the GERN shares on the ex-date.
"so you are quite frankly wrong"
No, I'm right. You are the one who is quite frankly wrong. The BTX warrants don't go to GERN shareholders, they go to Asterias shareholders, and the spinoff procedure, including the adjustment to GERN's share price, is a matter of stock exchange rules. You really ought to learn what's going on and how it's going to work before you embarrass yourself again.
Right -- the markdown probably won't be noticed in the daily trading range. The point is that the Asterias shares are not free.
Standard procedure. When a company makes a distribution, whether in stock or cash, the net asset value of the company is instantly reduced by the value of the distribution. The closing price of the stock on the day before the ex-date is then marked down by the value of the distribution to reflect the reduction in value.
"time is running out to get your GERN stock with free Asterias shares"
The Asterias shares are not free -- the price of GERN will be marked down by the proportional value of the Asterias spinoff shares on the ex-date.
"Are options EVER adjusted because of a dividend payout? Nope"
Sure they are. Do a google search for "OCC Information Memo 27649" and it spells out that sometimes, if somebody of authority feels like it, certain options will be adjusted, but then again, maybe not, because the committee may decide that they don't feel like it after all. Like maybe they're late for brunch or something.
"Add 'just plain crazy' after reading his latest barrage of nonsense."
I used "bat #$%$ crazy," but just plain crazy/bat #$%$ crazy - same as potato/patahto.
Oh, I'm not the least bit confused by robshecrazy. I realized from the very beginning that he's bat #$%$ crazy. I've been through these deferred ex-date dividends many, many times and always have a lot of fun watching close-minded nut bags try to tell me I'm wrong about how they work. After doing this for years, I gotta hand it to robshecrazy - he's the looniest of them all!
Well, let's say it's trading at 6.69, where it traded at most of the day, today, the 11th, until near the close. But two sentences ago you said you sold it after the tenth and also sold your right to the dividend to the buyer of your AWRE shares. So how can you sell your shares, including the right to the dividend, and yet the right to the dividend not belong to the buyer of your shares?
"Yes you can still receive the dividend after JUly 10th"
Oh, good - you changed your mind back to what you said in the first place.
"but be prepared to shed more money example if you go to your broker now you will see siome people putting in there premium price now good to cancel."
Who cares what high price some shareholders put a sell order in for when plenty of others are still willing to sell for 6.69?
"To understand this better look at the bid price in blue those are people whop own the stock before July 11th and are getting the dividend. There price will be higher then market value so if you go to buy the stock dirt"
What is stock dirt?
...robshemanski? Stock dirt?
"In order to understand how stocks special dividend works you must understand what terminology means."
"What is a record date mean? It means that you must own the stock by this date. It's the last day to own the stock which is today July 10th."
So, the ex-date means nothing?
"From July 11th to July 23rd you can still get the dividend but have to pay a higher premium"
But you just said that July 10th was the last day to own the stock in order to receive the dividend. How can you still get the dividend just by paying a premium if the 10th was the last day to qualify?
"say I was going to sell my shares that I own you would have to pay more money I may ask for 7.50 a share"
Really? Then how come it traded only two cents higher during most of the trading day on the 11th? Is $6.69 just about the same as $7.50?
"I own 6800 shares of AWRE Say I decide to sell some of it before the dividend date is reached. I will not sell it at market value but at a higher premium."
How much higher?
"I bought it at 6.58 so I would sell it at 8.34."
Oh. ... But how can you sell it for 8.34 after the 10th when it's already after the 10th and it traded all day below 6.75?
"I want my 1.75 dividend a share so in order for you to get you have to pay a higher premium."
But why would I buy from you when everybody else is willing to sell it below 6.75? 63,000 shares below 6.75 today alone.
"Say you bought it from me I just gave up my right to own the dividend and then you get the right to the dividend."
Okay. You sold and gave up the right to the dividend. It now belongs to the buyer.
"If you buy at market value saying it's trading at 6.58 after July 10th you are not owning the stock by the record date therefore you do not qualify for the dividend."
This is so educational I'll have to continue it in the next post ...