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The GEO Group, Inc. Message Board

cwn600 177 posts  |  Last Activity: 18 hours ago Member since: Dec 28, 1999
  • Reply to

    Buying now to receive the dividend?

    by dooganpgd Jul 28, 2015 11:19 PM

    Say, treasuryw, how can you possibly screw up the facts so bad? The ex-date was not last week, it is the 13th of August. The 13th of August isn't the payment date, the 12th of August is the payment date. Investors DO have to hold until August 13 to get the dividend. Buying after July 21st DOES get you the dividend (if held until August 13).

    If your intent was to get everything wrong, then your post is perfect. Congratulations.

  • Reply to

    Question on dividend

    by byeingmore Jul 28, 2015 1:17 PM
    cwn600 cwn600 Jul 28, 2015 8:21 PM Flag

    Yes, you should've.

  • Reply to

    Question on dividend

    by byeingmore Jul 28, 2015 1:17 PM
    cwn600 cwn600 Jul 28, 2015 4:33 PM Flag

    Yeah, the company says you'll get the dividend if you are a shareholder of record on Aug 5, but as racemaster says, you have to buy it no later than July 31 to become a shareholder of record on Aug 5. Being a shareholder and being a shareholder of record are two different things. You become a shareholder the instant your purchase trade executes, but you do not become a shareholder of record until the trade settles, three business days after the trade date.

  • Reply to

    Question on dividend

    by byeingmore Jul 28, 2015 1:17 PM
    cwn600 cwn600 Jul 28, 2015 4:29 PM Flag

    "OMG, the record date is always 2 days after the ex date."

    Well, except when it isn't. ENZN's record date for its next dividend was July 21 and the ex-date is Augst 13.

  • Reply to

    Ex-Dividend Date: 27-Jul-15

    by eldiviner Jul 24, 2015 4:21 PM
    cwn600 cwn600 Jul 27, 2015 1:12 PM Flag

    "it shows a closing price for Friday as $15.62. Which is the actual closing "trade price" of $16.02 minus the.40 cent dividend."

    Yes. The closing price of regular hours trading is marked down to reflect the dividend no longer being available to new buyers.

    "Usually the market maker opens a dividend stock on the ex-dividend date (Monday morning at the open) at the previous days close minus the dividend, thus the $15.62"

    No, the market makers don't open the stock on the ex-date at the previous close minus the amount of the dividend. Only the previous day's closing price quote is adjusted down, and then for two reasons only -- as the basis for the change in price on the ex-date and for reducing all outstanding orders for the stock (unless placed with a Do Not Reduce restriction). The market is free to open the stock at any price it wants, and it does. Of course most often that opening price is about at the dividend-adjusted number, but rarely is it at the exact dividend-adjusted price.

    "but TDAmeritrade also shows the stock up in after hours .53 @ $16.15."

    The closing price of after hours trading is not used for the dividend adjustment of the stock price, even though after hours purchases do qualify for the dividend.

    "did people actually get some shares after hours at the dividend reduced price of $15.62 and buy it up to 16.15?"

    The regular hours closing price was not adjusted until after the end of after hours trading, so it's unlikely any of the after hours trades were at 15.62. You'd have to check the trade history for the day to be sure, as anything can happen in after hours trading, which the reason the regular hours trading closing price is used for the dividend adjustment, not the after hours close.

    "I wouldn't think these shares would get the dividend i.e. the stock went ex-dividend at the close of regular trading?"

    After hours trading includes the right to the dividend. A stock doesn't go ex-dividend until after the close of after hours trading.

  • Reply to

    Shares Will Be AT .50 After Dividend

    by mikeanthony1956 Jul 24, 2015 5:57 PM
    cwn600 cwn600 Jul 26, 2015 7:10 PM Flag

    "I thought SEC guidance was that the ex-div date is 3 days before the record date."

    For normal dividends, two days before the record date, not three. And if you read the SEC site's Ex-Dividend Dates page, you'll see that it also covers the circumstance of when the ex-date is after the record date.

    "I see not harm in shorting the stock. And you will almost certainly make 50 cents a share that way too as the stock will indeed fall after folks get the dividend."

    Are you not aware that short sellers holding such a position through the close of trading on the day before the ex-date have to pay the dividend to whoever they borrowed the shares from?

    "You will need to wait a couple of weeks to collect that 50 cents on the short as this thing does not fall by 50 cents on the ex-div date. It falls about 20% that day and then gradually sells off over several weeks."

    Twenty percent of the dividend on the ex-date, huh? In January it paid 10 cents and fell seven cents on the ex-date. That's more than three times your 20%. In December of 2013 it paid 45 cents and fell 45 cents on the ex-date. That's five times higher than your 20%. In June of 2013 it paid 1.60 and fell 1.58 on the ex-date. In December of 2012 it paid 2.00 and fell 2.05 on the ex-date. Obviously you don't know what you're talking about.

    "this is not the first time this company has paid a dividend and so the pattern is crystal clear"

    Yeah, it's crystal clear but you somehow managed to fog it up.

  • Reply to

    Shares Will Be AT .50 After Dividend

    by mikeanthony1956 Jul 24, 2015 5:57 PM
    cwn600 cwn600 Jul 24, 2015 7:32 PM Flag

    "I been telling everyone and shorts are aboard and Ex-date gone"

    Why have you been telling "everyone" that when it's not true? Are you trying to convince them that you're ignorant about dividend dates? If "everyone" knows you, they're probably already aware of your ignorance, so it's probably a wasted effort. Much like your post here.

    "So many so wrong about the date on ex-date"

    Yes, and you're prominently among them.

    "No one knows the true facts!"

    Well, it's clear that you don't.

  • Reply to

    X-Dividend date

    by monarchholdings Jul 24, 2015 1:25 PM
    cwn600 cwn600 Jul 24, 2015 2:36 PM Flag

    The ex-date is July 31. The company doesn't announce the ex-date because it doesn't establish the ex-date, the stock exchange does. You can easily find the ex-date by looking at the company's dividend history on the NASDAQ website.

  • Reply to

    Dividend

    by holotofit Jul 23, 2015 11:53 AM
    cwn600 cwn600 Jul 24, 2015 11:48 AM Flag

    "I probably don't understand rule"

    You're right about that.

    "I'm saying is that 25% of $2.00 is $.50 and if price @ pay day is $2.01 the 25% rule would not apply IMO. Could be wrong and probably am."

    Yeah, but look at it this way: You're right about being wrong.

    According to your opinion, the ex-date should change if the stock price goes above $2 at any time before the payment date. That would also mean that the ex-date should also change if the stock price falls below $2.01. Considering that stock prices tend to fluctuate, and ENZN is no exception, if it should begin to trade in a range that saw it repeatedly rise above $2 and fall below $2.01, you would have the ex-date bouncing back and forth between July 17 and August 13. How, exactly, do you see that working when July 17 has already passed?

    drebsamen, you could've read back a few posts and learned that the application of the 25% rule is based on the price of the stock on the day a dividend is declared, not upon a fluctuating stock price between the record the payment dates. Why, that would be as ridiculous as posting nonsensical misunderstandings on a stock message board.

  • Reply to

    Dividend

    by holotofit Jul 23, 2015 11:53 AM
    cwn600 cwn600 Jul 23, 2015 5:47 PM Flag

    And as I posted in response before, you do not understand the 25% rule correctly. The ex-date remains August 13 no matter what the stock price does.

    You don't even understand normal dividend dates correctly, for if this dividend was not subject to the 25% rule, the ex-date would've been July 17, not July 21.

  • Reply to

    I'm out

    by wake_me_when_something_happens Jul 22, 2015 1:36 PM
    cwn600 cwn600 Jul 22, 2015 3:38 PM Flag

    The company's declaration of the dividend describes only the company's role in the distribution of the dividend. The due bill procedure is handled entirely by the brokerages, which means the declaration is accurate but very incomplete.

  • Reply to

    I'm out

    by wake_me_when_something_happens Jul 22, 2015 1:36 PM
    cwn600 cwn600 Jul 22, 2015 3:36 PM Flag

    That passage mentioned "stock dividend" but the process applies equally to cash dividends of 25% or more.

  • Reply to

    I'm out

    by wake_me_when_something_happens Jul 22, 2015 1:36 PM
    cwn600 cwn600 Jul 22, 2015 3:35 PM Flag

    From the SEC website, below where they explain how normal dividend dates work:

    "If the dividend is 25% or more of the stock value, special rules apply to the determination of the ex-dividend date. In these cases, the ex-dividend date will be deferred until one business day after the dividend is paid.

    If you sell your stock before the ex-dividend date, you also are selling away your right to the stock dividend. Your sale includes an obligation to deliver any shares acquired as a result of the dividend to the buyer of your shares, since the seller will receive an I.O.U. or "due bill" from his or her broker for the additional shares. Thus, it is important to remember that the day you can sell your shares without being obligated to deliver the additional shares is not the first business day after the record date, but usually is the first business day after the stock dividend is paid."

  • Reply to

    I'm out

    by wake_me_when_something_happens Jul 22, 2015 1:36 PM
    cwn600 cwn600 Jul 22, 2015 2:55 PM Flag

    "If you were still in on 21/7, you will get 0.50$ dividend"

    No. Haven't you been reading the constant corrections to such a belief on this board? Anyone who sells ENZN before the ex-date of August 13 is also selling their right to receive the dividend. That is the very purpose of an ex-dividend date: it is the first day a stockholder call sell without also selling their right to receive the dividend.

    "so you didn't really jump out break even"

    Yes, he did. He understands how this dividend works.

    "are you trying to convince people to jump out, or you really don't understand you have made a 30% raw profit?"

    He understands completely that he broke even. You're the one who doesn't understand that he DIDN'T make a profit, 30% or otherwise.

  • Reply to

    Most of the fools are gone who don't understand

    by lilduckdong Jul 22, 2015 7:52 AM
    cwn600 cwn600 Jul 22, 2015 2:39 PM Flag

    "If stock goes to $2.01 on the pay pay date the record date goes back to 7/21/2015 if I correctly understand the 25% rule."

    No, you do not correctly understand the rule. The record date is the record date, no matter what the stock price does. It does not change. The ex-date will also not change. It will remain August 13 because the 25% rule is based on the stock price as of the date of declaration. It is not a moving target.

  • Reply to

    Stop convincing others to buy

    by riskter Jul 22, 2015 12:11 PM
    cwn600 cwn600 Jul 22, 2015 1:44 PM Flag

    "we are definitely not communicating"

    Lookit there, riskter -- we actually agree on something!

    "i am talking about the current shares sold vs. outstanding shares"

    The shares currently being traded ARE some of the outstanding shares. There is no one vs the other; they are one and the same.

  • Reply to

    Stop convincing others to buy

    by riskter Jul 22, 2015 12:11 PM
    cwn600 cwn600 Jul 22, 2015 1:42 PM Flag

    Are you asking your broker about dividend dates in general, or have you told him that ENZN is using an ex-date after the record date and is employing due bills?

  • Reply to

    Stop convincing others to buy

    by riskter Jul 22, 2015 12:11 PM
    cwn600 cwn600 Jul 22, 2015 1:40 PM Flag

    You need a new stock broker. He couldn't possibly have confirmed it because it isn't true. If it were true, then what would the purpose of the ex-date be?

  • Reply to

    Stop convincing others to buy

    by riskter Jul 22, 2015 12:11 PM
    cwn600 cwn600 Jul 22, 2015 1:37 PM Flag

    "the more shares out there the less dividend payout for the next cycle"

    The company isn't issuing any new stock. Where did you get that idea? Issuing stock raises cash; ENZN is distributing cash, not raising it. Why are you concerned about new shares being issued?

  • Reply to

    Stop convincing others to buy

    by riskter Jul 22, 2015 12:11 PM
    cwn600 cwn600 Jul 22, 2015 1:31 PM Flag

    "This payout cut off date is already over as of yesterday"

    Until you get over the fact that you don't understand how this dividend works, further conversation is pointless. The cutoff date for this dividend, like ALL dividends, is the ex-dividend date, NOT the record date. The ex-date for this dividend is August 13. The company told you that in an 8-K filing. And they weren't joking.

GEO
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