"what did i say to have you make that accusation?"
Oh, you added that little condescending dig of "why the hell was that info made part of the form 10..."
Adding that "why the hell" after having taken me to task for having what you determined to be an "attitude" a couple weeks back is rich!
It's not OK for me to add a little dig, but it is for you. That thinned-skinned attitude serves you well, does it?
At the very least it appears to neatly insulate your cocoon of ignorance.
"did i post ANYTHING that was wrong?"
Not wrong, but incomplete. You think that a few incomplete facts are enough of an explanation for a reader to understand the entire process, do you? Or do you believe that a partial understanding is all anybody really needs?
"take your "know everything" attitude and SHOVE IT!!!"
Attaboy! You really told me off! About the only way you can top that is to make a grand proclamation of how you're going to put me on the dreaded and punitive "Ignore." Lots of blowhards seem to get very dramatic with that little non-event, as if they're reciting Macbeth.
"i've seen your msgs on another board that i keep an eye on and that same attitude of yours is displayed there as well as here"
Oh really? And yet you've never noticed that I play it straight with everyone until they start getting snippy with my simple statements of facts regarding a stock exchange process? How very unobservant of you.
pebble, why the hell don't you blast me again? And then why the hell don't you make a tearful, dramatic proclamation of your careful, well thought out decision to put me on Ignore? Your legion of anonymous message board fans (you know, the ones dancing around inside your head) are expecting nothing less. And why the hell don't they all do the same?
"what about the people who are doing the when-issued trading before the record date? don't the prices for those trades mean anything?"
It means something to the when-issued buyers and sellers, assuming the spinoff is completed, but it means nothing to the pricing of the two stocks on the first day they trade entirely separate. And it mean nothing at all if the spinoff doesn't go through. If, for any reason, the spinoff doesn't happen on the stated distribution date, all when-issued transactions will be cancelled.
"if so, then why the hell was that info made part of the form 10 that was filed?"
Boilerplate legal language, of course, but it helps to know how the process really works to fully understand it. It's no different than the statement made by every company issuing a spinoff that says the distribution will be paid to all shareholders of record as of the record date for the spinoff. While that's true, the fact is that any shareholder of record who sells the parent company of the stock between two days preceding the record date and the ex-date will be required to forward the distribution to the buyer of their shares. Most companies don't include that vital last part, only because they are not required to by law, for the company doesn't take part in the due bill process. But many, many investors who've never seen the process play out simply assume they can sell the parent stock after the record date and still receive the distribution, because of the incomplete language in the spinoff declaration.
But you know everything and completely trust the company's press releases, so why argue with me? Have it your way.
"note the words "shortly before the Record DATE""
To be exact, the when-issued trading will begin two business days before the record date (on the day that would be the ex-date for a normal distribution). When trading begins for a spinoff in when-issued trading, because the price of the spinoff has not yet been established by the market, volume is usually low and the spreads very wide. That often results in volatile prices at the beginning. It is the two weeks (or thereabouts) of when-issued trading that narrows the spreads and smooths out the volatility. The actual price of a spinoff used for adjusting the post-spinoff price of the parent company is the closing price of the spinoff in when-issued trading on the distribution date. The distribution date is between the record date and the ex-date, not before the record date. The market prices of Yahoo and the spinoff in the two days of when-issued trading before the record date aren't used for anything.
"it's not the spinoff date that's important. it's the DATE OF RECORD ."
To shareholders the spinoff date of record that's important is the ex-distribution date, not the record date
"days before that date will be when when the market prices of yhoo, aaba, yhoov & aabav will probably become known"
No, the prices of each will be determined by when-issued trading between the record date and the ex-date, not before the record date.
The spinoff procedure is done according to FINRA rules, and they are very well established. Speculation on the sequence of events is pointless when it's not difficult to learn how they really work.
On the AWILCO website, go to Investor Relations, press releases, 19.11.2015 AWDR - Awilco Drilling Reports Q3 2015 Results:
"The Board approved a dividend distribution payable in Q4 2015 of USD 0.50 per share. The share will trade ex-dividend on 24 November 2015, the record date is 25 November 2015 and the payment date is on or around 18 December 2015."
Be aware that the mention of the ex-date being one day before the record date is for trading on the Oslo Stock Exchange.
Yeah, they declared it today. A purchase tomorrow will qualify for the dividend. Why you'd want to buy it just to get the dividend is a whole nother story.
I was aware of that. I knew you just slipped up when you said labor relations a few days ago, but it kinda fit because of the way they were struggling with trying to answer questions they obviously didn't understand.
If you wanted to keep the distribution, you needed to sell your CSC shares in the ex-distribution market, not in regular-way trading.
No need; I already know how it works. And November 30th won't tell you anything because the due bills don't settle until December 2, so the distribution on the shares you sold before November 27 may sit in your account until then.
"you need to read it again"
No, actually I don't. You need to understand that the press release's simple statement of fact doesn't ell the whole story. While it's true that the distribution will be paid to all shareholders of record as of November 18, what the press release doesn't ell you is that all shares of CSC traded beginning November 16 through November 27 will have due bills attached that obligates the seller -- whether they are shareholders of record on Nov 18 or not -- to forward the distribution to the buyer.
"Nov 30 this is not the ex dividend date"
Yes, it is. Included in the press release announcing the distribution is the note that "Beginning on or about November 16, 2015 and continuing up to and through the distribution date, it is expected that there will be two markets in CSC common stock. Shares that trade in the “regular-way” market will be entitled to receive both the shares of CSRA common stock and the Special Dividend; shares that trade in the “ex-distribution” market will trade without the entitlements to shares of CSRA common stock or the Special Dividend."
That tell you right there that CSC continues to trade WITH the right to the distribution THROUGH the distribution date (Nov 27).
So even though the company outright tells you that you're wrong, you continue to cling to your misunderstanding. Good luck with that.
"i always thought the price adjustment was on the ex div date"
It is, but when the dividend is only a fraction of a stock's daily trading range, the adjustment gets lost in normal trading. Contrary to what too many people believe (because the bogus statement is repeated so often), a stock is not required to open trading on the ex-date at the dividend adjusted price. It is free to open at any price, and in practice stocks rarely open at exactly the dividend adjusted price.
And when a dividend amounts to only a fraction of a stock's normal daily trading range, it's every bit as likely to open up on the ex-date as down.
The only prices that are reduced by the exact amount of a dividend is the quote of the previous day's close and all outstanding orders, unless placed with a Do Not Reduce restriction.
No, it doesn't. The price adjustment happens on the ex-date, not the record date. It wasn't noticed on the ex-date of the 17th because the stock's normal daily trading range is much more than the amount of the dividend, so it got lost in that day's trading.
Only as long as they hold until November 30. Any shareholder of record on the 18th who sells before November 30th will also be selling the right to the distribution. That's the way it works when the ex-date is after the record date. Like with this one.
"What I do not understand is did the drop in stock price have anything to do with the record date of 11/16 (from people not understanding this)"
Yes. It happens maybe once every ten times with a deferred ex-date. It not only shows the ignorance of retail investors as to the real ex-date, but it also demonstrates the great depth of that ignorance, for even if normal dividend rules applied, the price adjustment would've happened on November 12, not the 17th. An ex-date immediately follows a record date only with mutual funds; never with individual stocks.
"Well, I've been trading stocks for a long time and every stock that I've ever owned, the shareholder of record date is the only date that matters"
So, because you've never heard of something, it can't possibly exist?
"I just got through talking with my broker at Scottrade and he confirmed my understanding to be correct."
He couldn't have confirmed your understanding to be correct because it isn't. Did you ask for a general understanding of dividend dates, or did you point put to him that the ex-date has already been declared by NASDAQ to be January 4, 2016?
It is the ex-date that determines who gets the distribution, not the record date. With normal dividends the record date is used to determine the ex-date. With dividends of 25% or more of a stock's price, the payment date is used to determine the ex-date.
Your reliance on the information in the company's press release announcing the distribution is especially faulty when you don't even pay attention to what they actually say. You say, "The 50% portion of the dividend payable in stock will be based upon the closing price of the stock on 12/31/15," which is completely contrary to what the press release actually says. It says, "The number of shares of the Company's common stock to be issued to stockholders receiving all or a portion of the dividend in shares of common stock will be based on the volume weighted average price per share of GSV Capital's common stock on the Nasdaq Capital Market on December 28, 29 and 30, 2015."
When the company outright tells you the price basis will be the average of the 28th, 29th and 30th, how in the world do you come up with it being based on the 31st?
lavanhb1, you can't even read a press release without screwing it up. And you're trying to tell the rest of us how dividend dates work?
"I guess I'll just have to wait and see who is correct."
No, you don't have to wait to see. You can easily research it for yourself by doing a google search for "deferred ex-date."
Why don't you?
"You need to be the shareholder of record on 11/16/15"
No, when the ex-date is after the record date, shareholders of record do not receive the distribution if they sell before that deferred ex-date. The ex-date for this distribution is January 4, 2016.
"Why is today ex-dividend when Oct. release says Nov. 18 which is Wednesday?"
The declaration says the record date is Nov. 18, not the ex-date. The two are not the same thing. The 16th was indeed the ex-date.