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The Empire District Electric Company Message Board

dar200 480 posts  |  Last Activity: 22 hours ago Member since: Nov 16, 1998
  • Reply to

    merger and reverse split

    by david4801 Jul 14, 2014 7:33 PM
    dar200 dar200 Jul 14, 2014 7:39 PM Flag

    Maybe you should share a few of your thoughts.

    The sky is blue. any thoughts

  • Reply to

    2nd anniversary dripping at Fidelity

    by dar200 Jul 9, 2014 4:39 PM
    dar200 dar200 Jul 14, 2014 7:38 PM Flag

    Well, according to Fidelity's "performance" page, all Fidelity accounts are up 41.02% in the 12 months ended 6/30/14. Add Ameritrade, which has nothing but NRF + its progeny, and it probably about 43% in that period.

  • Reply to


    by acf8v Jul 14, 2014 12:00 PM
    dar200 dar200 Jul 14, 2014 3:56 PM Flag

    Took a 1,232 dinner trade instead.......only because position is too large.

  • In July, 2012, I purchased a single lot of NRF in a small IRA at Fidelity and also at Ameritrade. Both were set to drip dividends and both lots have dripped the same 8 dividends. Other than dripping, there has been no activity in NRF since the purchase. Thus, this is a correct comparison between the two houses dripping the same stock.

    As I have previously posted, Fidelity buys drip shares 3 business days before the pay date and Ameritrade buys the first business day after the pay date. Naturally, the price paid for drip shares will differ. Of the 8 dividends, 7 cost less per share at Fidelity.

    After 8 drips, at Fidelity the drip shares totaled 18.7249% of the number of shares originally purchased. At Ameritrade, drip shares are 18.3403% of the original lot....a difference of .3846%. Not much say you? Well, if the Fidelity percentage were applied to the Ameritrade shares, I would have had, pre-split and spin, an additional 43.908 shares at Ameritrade. At a pre-split price of 18.00, dripping at Ameritrade cost me 790 bucks.

    Put another way, adding the drip prices per share at Fidelity cost 79.7938 for 8 drips. Doing the same at Ameritrade totaled 81.2805. Thus, to buy 8 drip shares at Ameritrade cost 1.4867 more than at Fidelity, an average of 18.58375 cents per share per drip over these 8 drips.

    As I have also posted before, the only reason I have anything at Ameritrade is I like their streamer (now called trade architect) better than Fidelity's. Leaving NSAM, the lower yielding stock at AMTD is enough to get free streamer. Thus I am going to move all of my nrf at amtd to Fidelity as soon as cash for fractions post. That goes to Fidelity also, leaving nothing but dripping nsam in Ameritrade.

  • Reply to


    by acf8v Jul 14, 2014 12:00 PM
    dar200 dar200 Jul 14, 2014 1:07 PM Flag

    Selloff in nsam so far today may be due to silence on griffin. IMO, a decent opportunity for a flip for 50 cents.
    Don't know how long flip will take but do know if it is not griffin, it will be something else. Hamo ain't slowing down the nrf growth rate as long as the deal pipeline is there. To the contrary, given the reported price range of griffin, it looks like Hamo is going for bigger deals.

    IMO, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when and how big.

    This is why I bought a flip lot of nsam today.

  • dar200 dar200 Jul 13, 2014 5:30 PM Flag

    Correct. This report cut off at 6/25 trade date for 6/30 settlement.

    These shorts ain't doing too well. 6/25 close was 16.91. Last fri close 17.07 + 19.95 = 37.02 / 2 = 18.51, = 9.46% increase since 6/25.

    Nice to have such a volume just waiting to buy. I suspect the cover will come when they can no longer tolerate the pain.

  • Steadfast Capital group owns more than 12 million nsam. At 3/31 Steadfast reported owning 10.9 million nrf, so that position resulted in 5.45 million nsam in the spin. Now they own over 12 million, they say 6.7% of outstanding.....obviously a big buyer in early trading.

    That's nice. Good to see the tutes in big.

  • Reply to

    Where's trading correlation?

    by dar200 Jul 9, 2014 11:39 AM
    dar200 dar200 Jul 12, 2014 8:37 PM Flag

    Not for me it isn't. I flipped it 3 times last week in same-day round trips plus one nrf flip close in 4 T days.
    Added over 6.500 to Christmas fund, so it ain't frustrating to me.

  • Reply to

    Cash for fractions

    by dar200 Jul 10, 2014 10:14 AM
    dar200 dar200 Jul 10, 2014 1:44 PM Flag

    Hey, tbarber, you sure it's Fidelity and the cash is added to your balance? Does the cash show in the history file?

    I have fractions in two Fidelity accounts and no such cash credit has appeared.

  • Reply to

    Cash for fractions

    by dar200 Jul 10, 2014 10:14 AM
    dar200 dar200 Jul 10, 2014 1:02 PM Flag

    tbarber, you get the reading comprehension award for today.

    nsam = 18.20 per share
    nrf = 16.84 per share

  • Anybody see cash for nrf fractions resulting after the reverse split? None posted at Fidelity and Ameritrade as of just before this post.

    The split administrator was to add all the fractions resulting from the reverse split and sell the total in the open market and then distribute the proceeds pro rata.

    Strange, Ameritrade (which held nothing but nrf with dripping) is not showing fractional shares at all. It just shows an equal number of nrf and nsam shares. BTW, this account did end up with a fraction of nrf in the split. It's like amtd took the fraction for themselves.

    Fidelity, on the other hand, is showing fractions in each lot of nrf and nsam owned.

    Please post to this thread naming your broker and the price you got on a per share basis for the fraction sold when the cash posts to your account.

  • Collected thru 7/8 = 144.8 million vs 137.8 million thru 6/27..........= 7.0 million in 11 days. Gotta be fair here; business days 6/28 thru 7/8 = 6. 7/11 = .636 per calendar day or 1.166 per business day.

    Supp 3 = 1.050 ave per 4 days which also = business days.

    No problem with this report.

  • Reply to

    New cost basis after spin

    by nschwartz_99 Jul 2, 2014 10:53 AM
    dar200 dar200 Jul 9, 2014 5:11 PM Flag

    That's very close to using the average of the 7/1 hod and lod to get fair value.

    Using Yahoo's hod and lod I get 52.246% to nsam. AMTD very close to that.

  • Reply to

    2nd anniversary dripping at Fidelity

    by dar200 Jul 9, 2014 4:39 PM
    dar200 dar200 Jul 9, 2014 5:00 PM Flag

    I have present value, compounding and annuity formulas in my calculator, so I decided to run the above numbers.

    Annual compounding: Average annual compounded return = 102.281%
    Monthly: Average monthly compounded return = 6.046%
    Weekly: Average weekly compounded return = 1.364%

    Just like a Tony Soprano loan.

  • On July 9, 2012, two years ago today, in a small IRA, I bought 1,742 shares of NRF for 9,275 (cause that's all the cash I had at the time) and set the position to drip dividends. 8 drips have been posted. Other than dripping, the original position is untouched.....no trading whatsoever, so this is a theoretically correct total return dripping the Fidelity way.

    Today, nrf and nsam combined closed at 37,951, up 309.18% in exactly two years. Thank you, Hamo.

  • Reply to

    No 'HTB' Designation On NRF At Schwab Today

    by newguy7001 Jul 9, 2014 11:43 AM
    dar200 dar200 Jul 9, 2014 1:48 PM Flag

    HTB gone at Fidelity also, as of a minute ago. 14.4 million shares available.

  • There ain't none today and yesterday. Ying and yang, zig and zag, black & white. As of a few minutes ago NRF top % gainer in taxable account and NSAM worst % loser. About as opposite as can be.

    IMO, market still trying to settle into independent trading ranges and looks to be a long way from settling in.

    Hamo may be a little bit reluctantly OK with nsam price, especially since it is the new kid on the block with no track record other than pro forma statements in sec filings, but I'm as sure as I can be that he is very upset with the price of nrf. IMO, he would be very pleased with 24 (6% yield on 1.44 div), somewhat pleased at 22 (6.55% on 1.44), reluctantly OK with 20 (7.2% yield on 1.44), upset at 18 (8% yield on 1.44) and ballistic at any price under 18 which results in a yield over 8% on 1.44 dividend. I don't think he will announce the next spinoff until next March (after two quarters of "no nsam" operation are presented), but I expect he will mention it at the Aug CC.

  • Reply to

    Griffin Deal - I calculate 10% Accretive to NSAM EPS

    by nrfjb3 Jul 9, 2014 10:38 AM
    dar200 dar200 Jul 9, 2014 10:43 AM Flag

    It was presented here yesterday with calculations shown.

    Please show us your calculations. It might result in a credible post.

  • Reply to

    Trading correlations or lack thereof

    by dar200 Jul 7, 2014 4:47 PM
    dar200 dar200 Jul 9, 2014 1:22 AM Flag

    The most important thing about this exercise is you learned by yourself. I simply pointed you in the right direction.

    I could have told you the answer because I did the walk-forward within a day of the press release. That would have given you free information but you would have learned nothing. Learn how to learn and you can learn anything. I am happy to help those willing to put in the effort to help themselves.

    As to liquid tuition, I refer you to my post under lunco's 6/27 post headed "Again." The process works fine. I picked up a case last Fri with nothing but a screen name on it.

  • Reply to

    Trading correlations or lack thereof

    by dar200 Jul 7, 2014 4:47 PM
    dar200 dar200 Jul 8, 2014 9:48 PM Flag

    Almost excellent...the hotel deal was 213 million....this ain't the federal government. We don't know whether the 51 million in post 3/31 loans were made before the 5/7 140 million cash balance determination. You forgot 68 million into Aerium which closed in June per one of the sec filings for nsam.

    We also don't know how much principal was collected in 2 Q.

    We do know Hamo wants a minimum 100 million of working cash (per loan agreement with nsam)

    But you got into the ballpark, which is the point of the exercise. Subtract 68 million for aerium and 100 million as minimum balance and Hamo has about 100 million (plus principal collected) for additional investments.

    Even without a griffin deal, free cash is getting low absent big loan payoffs. .As soon as I read the May press release, I walked it forward to an August offering. I doubt it will be preferred which costs 9% on top of 1.5% to nsam. Higher prices for real estate means lower cap rates which means lower yield on leveraged equity. Preferred means not much left over for common.

    If preferred is issued, the rate of growth for nsam cad per share will be 10 times the rate of growth for nrf cad per common share.

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