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Energy Transfer Partners, L.P. Message Board

dar200 123 posts  |  Last Activity: Apr 30, 2016 12:43 PM Member since: Nov 16, 1998
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  • See IV board.

  • See post 3218 on IV board.

  • Reply to

    Asset Sales

    by maverick7572000 Feb 27, 2016 3:24 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 1, 2016 2:53 PM Flag

    See my post 3214 on IV for sales to the nontradeds. IMO, the precipitous price drop in early Jan put a fire in their belly to sell assets. Look at the buyers.

  • Reply to

    When is upcoming ex-dig date?

    by stockkman19 Feb 29, 2016 3:00 PM
    dar200 dar200 Feb 29, 2016 4:40 PM Flag

    They put the shovel in the ground to dig the hole we are in by filing the proxy statement disclosing the obscenely excessive compensation on Friday after the close (when else for sneaks?) on 4/17/15.

    They are still digging as they disclosed more robber shares last Fri night. Thus, I can't guess when the stock goes ex-dig.

  • Posted on IV board.

  • dar200 dar200 Feb 29, 2016 10:48 AM Flag

    It's up to us to email the two proxy advisory companies and urge them to recommend a "no" vote on compensation as well as voting against so-called independent directors who serve on multiple boards. No director of any board should serve on any other nrf/nsam/nre board except Hamo.

    In addition, an independent director should be chair of all boards, not Hamo.

  • Copy & paste on IV board.

  • Reply to

    Tax Treatment NRE

    by mattmateuchi Feb 22, 2016 7:02 PM
    dar200 dar200 Feb 27, 2016 11:28 AM Flag

    This is the note Fidelity has preceding preliminary data:

    "You can expect to receive an official consolidated 1099 Tax Reporting Statement as soon as your information is finalized. All official 1099 Tax Reporting statements will be mailed and available online no later than March 14, 2016."

    I believe I read elsewhere on Fidelity's website that they said they had an extension from IRS until March 17, but maybe it was the 14th. Makes no difference. The best Fidelity has for me is preliminary as of now.

  • Details on IV board.

  • Reply to

    Tax Treatment NRE

    by mattmateuchi Feb 22, 2016 7:02 PM
    dar200 dar200 Feb 26, 2016 4:41 PM Flag

    I still have not received my first Form 1099 from Fidelity.....they say by March 17.
    Nevertheless, I know they got NRF/NRE correctly because I tracked Fidelity's reductions in basis of both stocks.

  • Reply to

    Tax Treatment NRE

    by mattmateuchi Feb 22, 2016 7:02 PM
    dar200 dar200 Feb 26, 2016 4:38 PM Flag

    Schwab has it wrong. The distribution of NRE stock by NRF is treated the same as a cash distribution. The amount of the distribution is number of nre shares received x 11.38 (fmv on date of distribution per nrf).

    Distributions from NRF are taxable to the extent of current or accumulated earnings and profits (e&p) (a modified form of taxable income). To the extent distributions exceed current or accumulated e&p, they are treated as a not currently taxable return of capital (roc). ROC distributions reduce your tax basis in NRF stock.

    For 2015, 99.99228% of all common distributions, including NRE stock, are return of capital. See NRF website under dividends then tax status.

    Your initial tax basis of NRE stock is 11.38 per share, but a very small portion of their Dec distribution was roc.
    See the same on nre website.

  • Reply to

    Reliability of dividend

    by tacbos49 Feb 26, 2016 12:03 PM
    dar200 dar200 Feb 26, 2016 1:11 PM Flag

    On all of the properties sold/to be sold, they earn a greater percentage on the asset than they pay on the recourse debt. Thus the profit on the leverage increases cad per share. If all they do is sell these assets and pay down debt, cad per share goes down (less cad divided by same shares).

    If all they do is sell these assets and buy back stock with the proceeds at, say, less than 17 per share, then cad per share goes up quite a lot because the cad yield (not dividend) on the low stock price is much higher than the yield on the assets.

    What they have to do is buy back enough stock to offset the lost cad from sold assets so that cad per share does not decrease. The balance of the proceeds can pay down or off the recourse debt.

    I'm confident they have spreadsheets which tell them exactly how many shares they have to buy back to offset (on a per share basis) the lost cad from each and every asset they contemplate selling, and in the aggregate for all monetized properties. Thus, if they get a variance from expected proceeds on one property, the spreadsheet will adjust the allocation on the remaining properties to get to the per share they need.

    Greedy pigs (imo), but great financial engineers. I'm not worried about 40 cents being well covered.

  • Reply to

    Does NAV take into account

    by davedd52 Feb 26, 2016 10:56 AM
    dar200 dar200 Feb 26, 2016 11:05 AM Flag

    No, and it should not. Payment to nsam, while excessive, is payment for contemporaneous service.

    NSAM contract should not be considered a liability any more than paying 1,000 per year for a 5-years service contract on a photocopy machine. Buyer pays 1,000 per year and seller performs agreed service for a year on photocopy machine. Same with nsam: annual payment for annual service.

  • Reply to

    what will be the price at the close today?

    by luishone Feb 26, 2016 9:07 AM
    dar200 dar200 Feb 26, 2016 9:21 AM Flag

    I suggest you cover at the open, shorty.

  • dar200 by dar200 Feb 26, 2016 9:19 AM Flag

    Page 12 of supplement:

    Low 25.11
    Mid 25.69
    High 26.27

    Pro forma for asset monetizations. Have not seen how this works, yet.

  • Reply to

    CAD down to 66 cents

    by mattmateuchi Feb 25, 2016 2:22 PM
    dar200 dar200 Feb 25, 2016 2:38 PM Flag

    63% per press release = 63.5. Thus I guess 63 or 64 cents for cad per share.

  • We know all the thunder from NRF. Cad will be about 63-64 cents. No big pop from earnings tomorrow, imo. Maybe more from CC, but not from earnings.

    NRE not even on deck to report tomorrow, so no earnings pop from them. When they do report, no surprises (see IV board).

    Yahoo consensus for NSAM is 28 cents. IMO, they are going to beat that due to huge acquisition fees in 4Q.
    IMO, 1Q 2016 is going to stink due to selling only Income 2 and low acquisition fees. Too early for big disposition fees.

    So, I just bought 5,000 nsam flippers at 11.5112. Will probably sell tomorrow if we get a decent opening pop.

  • Reply to

    Correct Math?

    by tacbos49 Feb 25, 2016 11:20 AM
    dar200 dar200 Feb 25, 2016 12:44 PM Flag

    The broker is supposed to adjust tax basis for roc distributions, splits and spinoffs. I watch Fidelity very closely and they do it correctly. They initially recorded nre at 11.41 but then changed it to 11.38 after nrf took an 11.38 position. Then they reduced 11.38 by the roc portion of the nre Dec dividend.
    Now they have that initial lot at a tax basis of 11.3668, which is correct.

  • Reply to

    Correct Math?

    by tacbos49 Feb 25, 2016 11:20 AM
    dar200 dar200 Feb 25, 2016 12:07 PM Flag

    Maybe I can help you somewhat. In a small IRA, on 7/9/12, I bought 1,742 shares of NRF for a total cost of 9,189 (about 5.27 per then share). I set the position to drip all dividends. I have not initiated any transactions in any nrf stock since. The only transactions have been dripped dividends (in all 3) the spin shares, a tiny bit of cash for fractions in the last split/spin, and two reverse splits in nrf.

    A few minutes ago, that initial position, including all dividends dripped, is 603.505 shares of nrf worth 7,655, 1061.491 shares of nsam worth 11,947 and 195.762 shares of nre worth 1, value of 21,501.
    Sorry, I lost track of the cash for fractions, but it was peanuts.

    Thus, 9,189 has become 21,501, a total return of 12,312 on 9,189.....about 134% in about 44 months. Using my trusty present value calculator, a present value of 9,189 becoming a future value of 21,501 in 3.6667 years = an average annual compounded return on investment of 26.09%

    The initial 1742 shares became 871 before 871 of nsam were distributed. Excluding drips, the 871 would be 435.5 shares of nrf today. Thus, dripping brought 435.5 to 603.505 for nrf and 871 nsam has become 1061.491 due to dripping.

    The August, 2012 dividend was 16 cents on 1,742 shares (64 cents annualized) = 1,115 annual dividend.
    Today's shares at 40 cents, 10 cents and 15 cents annualize to 1,508 of dividends. Thus, with dripping in all, dividends have increased by 393 which is 35.2% of 1,115. 1115 becoming 1508 in 3.6667 years = an average annual compounded rate of increase of 8.58%.

  • Reply to

    Initial flurry of buying wanes

    by kenpalley2000 Feb 25, 2016 10:51 AM
    dar200 dar200 Feb 25, 2016 11:02 AM Flag

    I suspect covering shorts were in early and now those who are going to cover today have pretty much covered.

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