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Energy Transfer Partners, L.P. Message Board

dar200 175 posts  |  Last Activity: Feb 3, 2016 11:48 AM Member since: Nov 16, 1998
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  • Reply to

    NRF--NAV = 29.07 per share

    by dar200 Nov 13, 2015 4:19 PM
    dar200 dar200 Nov 13, 2015 4:26 PM Flag

    See my second post on this on the IV board for a copy & paste of the footnote explaining nav.

  • Page 12 of financial supplement just posted.

    Wow, they finally told the world what they think their assets are worth.

    Hope they do the same with NRE.

  • Reply to

    Common vs preferred

    by mattmateuchi Nov 13, 2015 1:31 PM
    dar200 dar200 Nov 13, 2015 2:40 PM Flag

    I don't think I used the word, "foolish", and I also said some people rationally disagree with me about the relative risk of preferred vs common. I think there is little difference in a going broke scenario, because a guy like Hamo will not go broke a little bit. If Hamo goes down, he will go down in flames where unsecured creditors will not get 100% on the dollar. All stockholders get wiped out.

    In any event, the current relative price drop is significant to those who have to sell or want to sell. In such a case, yes sir, preferred has been "safer" than common over the last 8 months. But interim changes is price are meaningless unless unless sold. I was talking an infinitely long term. My reason was and still is, all the upside is with common and, at the time, preferred was at or above par. Now the yield on common is approaching double that of preferred.

    Preferred is the better investment if NRF fails. Common is the better investment if NRF does not fail, all in my opinion. If anything, the switch to common case is even stronger with the disparity in price declines.

  • Reply to

    How much is a $500m....

    by lunco Nov 12, 2015 7:32 PM
    dar200 dar200 Nov 12, 2015 8:21 PM Flag

    NO. No gain or loss is recognized for tax purposes on a corporation trading its own stock. Buy back for 17 and later sell for 24 = no gain for tax purposes.

  • dar200 by dar200 Nov 12, 2015 4:54 PM Flag

    NRF has about 382 million in original cost of the multifamily portfolio. A sale at 500 million gives them a 30.9% profit on cost. Taxable income will be considerably higher due to depreciation.

    There is just under 250 million of debt on the apartments, so a sale for 500 nets them about 250 in cash.

    Hmmm, 250 million / 18.00 per share (averaging up) = 13.88 million shares.

  • dar200 by dar200 Nov 12, 2015 4:48 PM Flag

    Sold my last share today to put the proceeds into NRF and NRE where I think the upside, long term, is 5 times the upside in scco including a small takeout premium Grupo will pay to force us out. Within 6 months I smell a double in NRE.

  • Reply to

    Blackout ended---insiders buy

    by dar200 Nov 12, 2015 9:35 AM
    dar200 dar200 Nov 12, 2015 4:39 PM Flag

    Another Form 4 just filed. Hamo bought an additional 37,700 yesterday at 19.15.

  • Reply to


    by Nov 12, 2015 2:50 PM
    dar200 dar200 Nov 12, 2015 4:28 PM Flag

    I'm confident I'm right.

    BTW, many of those 5,000 share purchase lots are sold within a short time and I don't always post the sales.

  • Reply to


    by Nov 12, 2015 2:50 PM
    dar200 dar200 Nov 12, 2015 3:47 PM Flag

    My first buy today was at 10.96. My second buy was 10.44, 5,000 shares in each buy.

    I know I'm in the ballpark about book value and conservative net asset value. Properties are too new for these not to be dominating the trading price. Problem is, market is not aware and hates all things NRF.

    NRF & NSAM not helping with bluffing at buybacks. Bluff is called today. Until they start buybacks big time and release clear info on NRE I think this kind of beating is going to continue.

  • Reply to

    Pure yield calculated today

    by dar200 Nov 12, 2015 10:19 AM
    dar200 dar200 Nov 12, 2015 12:11 PM Flag

    Here's my email:

    NRF selling for under 17.64 = a yield over 17%. Where is the corporate buyback? Or is it another hollow bluff like NSAM's "buyback" with its cutsie token show in options.
    Shorts fear your buyback announcement like Putin fears Obama's hollow threats.

    BTW, everybody knows the Hamo and Tylis buys yesterday are just tokens for show.

    And I suppose a few people read that teeny tiny footnote that says the Aerium purchase has turned to **** (four letter word for fecal matter) in less than 18 months.

    Where is the buyback??

  • dar200 by dar200 Nov 12, 2015 11:53 AM Flag

    3.00 capitalized at 17% = 17.647. So buying at 17.64 or less gives a yield of better than 17%. Last I looked, we're there.

  • Reply to

    Pure yield calculated today

    by dar200 Nov 12, 2015 10:19 AM
    dar200 dar200 Nov 12, 2015 11:40 AM Flag

    Today we have the ex-divi dumpers. Happens frequently with high yield stocks. People hold for one last fat dividend, then sell the first day they can. The ex-divi dump.

    Plus the pros know the Hamo & Tylis buys are just for show. They won't be afraid to sell short until the corporation steps into the market with big buyback money. When they look at the cutesie, hollow bluff put up by NSAM, they won't worry about NRF buying big time until they see it happen. So far today, it hasn't happened.

  • Reply to

    Pure yield calculated today

    by dar200 Nov 12, 2015 10:19 AM
    dar200 dar200 Nov 12, 2015 11:10 AM Flag

    These two buys are for show. They each immediately get back 75 cents on their purchase price and compares to the compensation they "stole" (my opinion word) for 2014, the amounts are token amounts.

  • Since today is ex-dividend day a pure annual percentage yield can be calculated. There is no accreted dividend as of today to adjust the trading price to an ex dividend price.

    Let's see, 3.00 / 18.00 = 16.667% annual yield. That's how much this market hates and distrusts this management.

  • Reply to

    Blackout ended---insiders buy

    by dar200 Nov 12, 2015 9:35 AM
    dar200 dar200 Nov 12, 2015 9:51 AM Flag

    Tylis Form 4 filed at 9:22

    Hamo filed at 9:31

    More may be on the way. Corporation buying back does not have to file on transactions. Corp just reports quarterly. Unless company voluntarily discloses buybacks earlier, we won't know 4 Q buybacks until late Feb with earnings release. I expect company will buy heavily earlier as that when prices are lowest and buyback has greatest impact on weighted average shares outstanding.

    So, I just bought 5,000 flippers. Maybe a dinner trade today.

  • Hamo bought 100,000 nrf at 19.09
    Tylis bought 50,000 at 19.05.

  • Reply to

    NRF split....

    by nrf2020go Nov 10, 2015 11:32 AM
    dar200 dar200 Nov 10, 2015 8:03 PM Flag

    "NRF went up because they didn't do a reverse split at that time....."

    Now I understand. My wife keeps telling me I should be more patient, understanding and gentle with intellectually disabled people, so I'll try.

    Please reconsider the above statement. It's OK to look it an open book exam. That patient and gentle enough?

  • Reply to

    NRF split....

    by nrf2020go Nov 10, 2015 11:32 AM
    dar200 dar200 Nov 10, 2015 4:12 PM Flag

    Hogwash. If a reverse split is such price poison, how did NRF go up so much following the NSAM spin?

  • Reply to

    Any possiblity NRF an acquisition target?

    by rixsurfer Nov 10, 2015 3:48 PM
    dar200 dar200 Nov 10, 2015 4:08 PM Flag

    Gotta take NSAM & NRF in the same deal. I suspect it would have to be hostile because this management is young enough to want to continue the compensation plunder for many years. If that's not enough, read the golden parachute provisions in the employment contract sections of the proxy statements. If you've been puking over excessive compensation, have an EMT team by your side before you start reading the change of control payments to them.

  • Reply to

    NRF buyback real

    by dar200 Nov 10, 2015 12:20 PM
    dar200 dar200 Nov 10, 2015 3:41 PM Flag

    I have posted many times on this board that I do not bat 1,000. But I'm right a lot more often than I'm not on the future of stocks. Sometimes I'm just too far ahead of the market and it takes months for the market to catch up to me. This is where NRE is, imo. I'm way ahead of the market and the reason I'm way ahead is no info from management. I scratch it out of SEC filings which few read, never mind analyze. I'll stay way ahead until the info is released, whenever that is, but it won't be later than next March.

    I have also posted here on several occasions that when I sell (other than flipping) I will post here why I sold AFTER I sell my last share.

    If you think my blast at the NSAM buyback on the IV board was positive, read it again.

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