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Energy Transfer Partners, L.P. Message Board

dar200 298 posts  |  Last Activity: 9 hours ago Member since: Nov 16, 1998
  • Reply to

    Sears/ WIllis Tower

    by davedd52 Mar 16, 2015 10:40 AM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 16, 2015 12:45 PM Flag

    Yeah, the restaurant I had in mind was closed due to another snowstorm and they close Monday and Tues.
    I will call them Wed and post here Thurs.

  • Reply to

    Sears/ WIllis Tower

    by davedd52 Mar 16, 2015 10:40 AM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 16, 2015 12:39 PM Flag

    Read the 10-K. I believe the lots are mentioned but I don't remember the details because the deal was/is so small I didn't pay much attention.

  • Reply to

    Sears/ WIllis Tower

    by davedd52 Mar 16, 2015 10:40 AM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 16, 2015 11:44 AM Flag

    No. NRF got a piece of the Hancock building. They did a couple of things shortly after the takeover, I suspect with the cash reducing other debt. Silence since those early deals. I believe the way the takeover was structured, nrf won't see a cash profit until the endgame.

  • Reply to

    future REIT pricing and NRF

    by jdaugs3 Mar 15, 2015 11:26 AM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 15, 2015 7:19 PM Flag

    You are talking about market timing and trading, not investing for the long term. You have to be right twice in a row. Nevertheless, if that's how you want to play "investing", go for it as it is a free country (supposedly).

    I admit to flipping nrf and nsam, but that's with about 20% of what I am currently holding. The 80 % core position is an investment. I really don't care what the short term price is (except ego-wise) because I pay my bills with dividends, not by selling shares.

    To each his own. Different strokes for different folks. Good luck with your market timing.

  • Reply to

    future REIT pricing and NRF

    by jdaugs3 Mar 15, 2015 11:26 AM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 15, 2015 12:36 PM Flag

    Of course he knows something we don't know......he knows nrf is struggling to increase cad on a per share basis. He reached, price-wise, for griffin, hoping it will be cad neutral. That's a 4 billion buy, a little less than 1/3 of equity assets issuing over 60 million shares. It's a big anchor to cad per share in both directions. Plus, he has to squeeze costs out to get to neutral.

    Hamo doesn't want to tell us cad per share will show little or no growth for 2015 without unexpected growth from hotels or private equity deals, something he is hoping for but can't budget. If he doesn't publish a cad estimate, then he can't fall short of his estimate. It's as simple as that.

    Accept the fact that nrf has morphed into a slow-grow equity reit. Renting real estate is get rich slowly.

    But move away from an overweight position now with nrf's yield? Not me, bubba. 1.60/18.15 = 8.82%.
    Where you going to get that in an equity reit?

  • Reply to

    NRF dividend

    by bp3358yh Mar 14, 2015 12:20 AM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 14, 2015 12:39 PM Flag

    Fidelity should show a completed transaction. I suggest you call them.

    Etrade got the money Friday, just like every other broker. If you are not dripping, it should have shown as cash yesterday. If dripping, they won't show the dividend until they post the drip, which I think should be before the market opens on Monday if they bought drip shares Friday (don't know their update procedures are).

    I have NSAM dripping at Ameritrade. They show nothing and won't until they post the drip from Monday's buy.

  • What really counts is a long term investor's total return over a long period of time. On July 9, 2012, in a small IRA, I bought 1,742 shares of nrf for 9,189, set it to drip dividends and have not touched the position since.
    Thus, this is the perfect vehicle to measure total return dripping the fidelity way. When the split/spin came, this account got fractional shares to 3 decimal places. It is a mathematically perfect total return vehicle from purchase date forward (dripping the fidelity way) as long as I don't touch the positions. Consequently I have no intention of touching them.

    After yesterday's close and the drip was posted, nrf was worth 20,140 and nsam was worth 25,117, a total of 45,257 from 9,189 on 7/9/12........up 393% in a little better than 2 1/2 years. That ain't bad, imo.

    At the spin on 7/1/14, nrf was worth 17,373 to 20,140 now.......up 15.93% in a little under 3/4 of a year.
    NSAM was worth 19,855 at the close on 7/1/14 to 25,117 now...up 26.50% in the same 3/4 year.

    At 12/31/14, nrf was 19,084 to 20,140 now....up 5.53% this ytd.
    NSAM was 23,454 on 12/31/14 to 25,117 yesterday's close.....up 7.09% this ytd.

    Notice how the rate of total return has decreased this year.Maybe Hamo playing "I've Got A Secret" has something to with it.

  • Reply to

    Calling all drip investors

    by dar200 Mar 13, 2015 5:12 AM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 14, 2015 10:43 AM Flag

    My results lead this thread.

    First understand that different brokers buy drip shares on different days. Fidelity buys 3 business days before the pay date and Ameritrade buys the first business day after the pay date. It appears Caritas buys on the pay date. I dripped NRF at Ameritrade 8 times before I moved NRF to fidelity, leaving nsam as the sole position at ameritrade. In 7 of the 8 drips the ameritrade price was higher than the fidelity price, sometimes substantially higher.

    Naturally, a rising or falling price momentum will result in higher or lower prices when buying on different days.
    The real test is to compare prices of brokers who buy on the same day. I hope this thread gets reports on this drip on Etrade, Vanguard, Schwab and several others. I will report on Ameritrade on nsam either late Monday or early Tuesday.

    I posted a similar thread on dripping last November's dividends. Try looking for my "Calling all drip investors"
    around mid Nov, 2014.

  • Reply to

    Pathetic relative price performance

    by dar200 Mar 12, 2015 4:17 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 13, 2015 1:51 PM Flag

    I don't have to insist on a message board. I just stated a fact. Very long in both and have no current intention of getting out.

  • Reply to

    Pathetic relative price performance

    by dar200 Mar 12, 2015 4:17 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 13, 2015 9:50 AM Flag

    Which means sharebuilder buys at the close the day before the pay date. That's new to me. Learn something new every single day.

  • Fidelity has posted drip shares (before 4:15 am 3/13) so it obviously did not buy them in today's trading. I drip nrf/nsam in 3 small IRAs at Fidelity. I divided drip dollars by drip shares and rounded to the 4th decimal place. I paid the following:

    NRF: 18.0253, 18.0253 and 18.0249.....range = 4/1000th of a cent

    NSAM: 23.9416, 23.9416 and 23.9392 ......range = 24/1000th of a cent

    The range is due to rounding of the last cent of money and the last 1000th of a share.

    NRF's high of day (18.25) was 1.96% above the low of day (17.90). Fidelity's price is 1.25% above the low of day. Thus, Fidelity's buy was 64% of the worst possible price. They get a D- when 50% = a C.

    NSAM s hod was 1.13% above the lod. Fidelity's price was .54% above lod, thus 48% of the worst possible price. They get a C+ on getting the best price possible.

    All drippers, please post to this thread the name of your broker, the date (and time if you know it) the drip shares are posted to your account (not 3/13 unless posted on 3/13) and the price you paid per share to FOUR DECIMAL PLACES. If enough brokers are represented in the responses, I guarantee the results will be interesting. Drips are not created equally, as you will see.

  • Reply to

    Pathetic relative price performance

    by dar200 Mar 12, 2015 4:17 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 12, 2015 7:35 PM Flag

    Then you get your treat posted tomorrow morning. Fidelity bought Tuesday.

  • Reply to

    Pathetic relative price performance

    by dar200 Mar 12, 2015 4:17 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 12, 2015 4:49 PM Flag

    Well, you are not going to get it at today's price from any broker I am aware of and I have been doing drip surveys for 3 or 4 years in several different companies.

    If you are not at Fidelity or USAA, you are likely to get tomorrow's price unless you are at Ameritrade or Schwab, in which case you get Monday's price.

  • For asset managers, AAMC up 24.88% (probably a fluke) but AINC up 3.29%, more than double NSAM's 1.49%.

    For diversified equity reit index ETFs, VNQ up 1.89%, RWR up 1.77%, IYR up 1.69% and NRF up a pathetic .06%....all of one penny.

    As to equity reit sectors:
    Healthcare....HCN up 1.22%
    Manufactured housing.....ELS up 2.53% , SUI up 1.81%
    Hotels...CLDT up 2.18%

    And pathetic, hiding forward guidance for the first time in years, NRF, up all of one cent or .06%.

    Hey, Hamo, I'm not the only one upset over your stepping back into the cave of secrecy.

  • Reply to

    Bargain of the day

    by dar200 Jan 27, 2015 1:29 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 11, 2015 8:01 PM Flag

    Yeah, sold some flippers for tax loss and put proceeds into RGP. Avoided wash sale rule and am in same economic position if merger goes through.

  • Reply to

    Fidelity bought drip shares today

    by dar200 Mar 10, 2015 4:59 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 11, 2015 5:02 PM Flag

    Fidelity buys at as many different prices as necessary to spend all of the drip dollars. Then it takes total drip dollars spent and divides by total drip shares purchased for their average cost per drip share. Then all fidelity drippers pay that same average cost.

  • Reply to

    Fidelity bought drip shares today

    by dar200 Mar 10, 2015 4:59 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 11, 2015 4:36 PM Flag

    You can go to the company's website to read about their direct drip. I don't know how they price it. I suspect the average of the high and low on the pay day. To participate in the direct drip YOU, not a broker, have to be the owner of record.

    Fidelity does not participate in the company drip. It simply takes drip cash to market and buys as many shares as the drip cash will buy, as do all brokers I am aware of. The brokers go to market on different days and at different times on the same day. None of them care how much they pay per share because they have no skin in the game. Whatever the broker pays, that's what the customer pays. The result is customers at different brokerages pay different prices per share....and the difference can be significant, even if the shares are bought on the same day. Pay attention to the responses to the drip survey I will post Friday.

    The exception with Fidelity is when a company offers a discount to drip with the company. ETP offers a 5% discount and HCN offers 3%. Fidelity automatically enrolled with the company's drip agent. I did not have to ask them.

    Understand this: Dripping with the company means new shares are issued. Total shares outstanding increases. In the typical broker drip, the broker buys existing shares in the open market. No new shares are issued. Thus total shares outstanding do not increase.

  • Reply to

    Selling NSAM

    by celtsfan1313 Mar 11, 2015 3:36 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 11, 2015 4:12 PM Flag

    Ah, you remember well. When nsam's articles of incorporation were filed, 1.5 billion common shares were authorized.....1.0 billion "regular" and .5 billion "performance". Yep, they contemplate taking one third of the company for free. Yep, they will deny that, saying that is a preposterous statement. If so, why authorize 1/3 of the company in robber shares?

  • Reply to

    DAR gets elected!

    by hsterniac Mar 10, 2015 11:51 AM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 11, 2015 2:55 PM Flag

    You don't need my permission or for that matter, anybody's. Go for it.

  • Reply to

    Fidelity bought drip shares today

    by dar200 Mar 10, 2015 4:59 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 11, 2015 9:59 AM Flag

    Not tutes. Brokers buy drip shares for dripping customers.

    Fidelity buys drip shares 3 business days before the pay date so those buys settle the day the cash comes in.

    Several brokers buy drip shares on the pay date, so they hold customers dividend cash for 3 business days without paying the customer interest. I call it stealing.

    And then there are the ultra "steal the float" brokers.....Ameritrade and I think Schwab. They buy drip shares the first business day after the pay date and pay for them 3 business days later.

    So, for this dividend, Ameritrade receives the dividend cash on Friday (and they pay down their line of credit).
    They buy the drip shares Monday and pay for them the following Thursday (when they draw from their line of credit). Thus Ameritrade "steals" (my opinion word) 6 days worth of interest on their customers dividend cash.
    When Monday is a holiday, they get a full week.

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