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Energy Transfer Partners, L.P. Message Board

dar200 296 posts  |  Last Activity: 36 minutes ago Member since: Nov 16, 1998
  • Reply to

    Calling all drip investors

    by dar200 Mar 13, 2015 5:12 AM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 14, 2015 10:43 AM Flag

    My results lead this thread.

    First understand that different brokers buy drip shares on different days. Fidelity buys 3 business days before the pay date and Ameritrade buys the first business day after the pay date. It appears Caritas buys on the pay date. I dripped NRF at Ameritrade 8 times before I moved NRF to fidelity, leaving nsam as the sole position at ameritrade. In 7 of the 8 drips the ameritrade price was higher than the fidelity price, sometimes substantially higher.

    Naturally, a rising or falling price momentum will result in higher or lower prices when buying on different days.
    The real test is to compare prices of brokers who buy on the same day. I hope this thread gets reports on this drip on Etrade, Vanguard, Schwab and several others. I will report on Ameritrade on nsam either late Monday or early Tuesday.

    I posted a similar thread on dripping last November's dividends. Try looking for my "Calling all drip investors"
    around mid Nov, 2014.

  • Reply to

    Pathetic relative price performance

    by dar200 Mar 12, 2015 4:17 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 13, 2015 1:51 PM Flag

    I don't have to insist on a message board. I just stated a fact. Very long in both and have no current intention of getting out.

  • Reply to

    Pathetic relative price performance

    by dar200 Mar 12, 2015 4:17 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 13, 2015 9:50 AM Flag

    Which means sharebuilder buys at the close the day before the pay date. That's new to me. Learn something new every single day.

  • Fidelity has posted drip shares (before 4:15 am 3/13) so it obviously did not buy them in today's trading. I drip nrf/nsam in 3 small IRAs at Fidelity. I divided drip dollars by drip shares and rounded to the 4th decimal place. I paid the following:

    NRF: 18.0253, 18.0253 and 18.0249.....range = 4/1000th of a cent

    NSAM: 23.9416, 23.9416 and 23.9392 ......range = 24/1000th of a cent

    The range is due to rounding of the last cent of money and the last 1000th of a share.

    NRF's high of day (18.25) was 1.96% above the low of day (17.90). Fidelity's price is 1.25% above the low of day. Thus, Fidelity's buy was 64% of the worst possible price. They get a D- when 50% = a C.

    NSAM s hod was 1.13% above the lod. Fidelity's price was .54% above lod, thus 48% of the worst possible price. They get a C+ on getting the best price possible.

    All drippers, please post to this thread the name of your broker, the date (and time if you know it) the drip shares are posted to your account (not 3/13 unless posted on 3/13) and the price you paid per share to FOUR DECIMAL PLACES. If enough brokers are represented in the responses, I guarantee the results will be interesting. Drips are not created equally, as you will see.

  • Reply to

    Pathetic relative price performance

    by dar200 Mar 12, 2015 4:17 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 12, 2015 7:35 PM Flag

    Then you get your treat posted tomorrow morning. Fidelity bought Tuesday.

  • Reply to

    Pathetic relative price performance

    by dar200 Mar 12, 2015 4:17 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 12, 2015 4:49 PM Flag

    Well, you are not going to get it at today's price from any broker I am aware of and I have been doing drip surveys for 3 or 4 years in several different companies.

    If you are not at Fidelity or USAA, you are likely to get tomorrow's price unless you are at Ameritrade or Schwab, in which case you get Monday's price.

  • For asset managers, AAMC up 24.88% (probably a fluke) but AINC up 3.29%, more than double NSAM's 1.49%.

    For diversified equity reit index ETFs, VNQ up 1.89%, RWR up 1.77%, IYR up 1.69% and NRF up a pathetic .06%....all of one penny.

    As to equity reit sectors:
    Healthcare....HCN up 1.22%
    Manufactured housing.....ELS up 2.53% , SUI up 1.81%
    Hotels...CLDT up 2.18%

    And pathetic, hiding forward guidance for the first time in years, NRF, up all of one cent or .06%.

    Hey, Hamo, I'm not the only one upset over your stepping back into the cave of secrecy.

  • Reply to

    Bargain of the day

    by dar200 Jan 27, 2015 1:29 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 11, 2015 8:01 PM Flag

    Yeah, sold some flippers for tax loss and put proceeds into RGP. Avoided wash sale rule and am in same economic position if merger goes through.

  • Reply to

    Fidelity bought drip shares today

    by dar200 Mar 10, 2015 4:59 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 11, 2015 5:02 PM Flag

    Fidelity buys at as many different prices as necessary to spend all of the drip dollars. Then it takes total drip dollars spent and divides by total drip shares purchased for their average cost per drip share. Then all fidelity drippers pay that same average cost.

  • Reply to

    Fidelity bought drip shares today

    by dar200 Mar 10, 2015 4:59 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 11, 2015 4:36 PM Flag

    You can go to the company's website to read about their direct drip. I don't know how they price it. I suspect the average of the high and low on the pay day. To participate in the direct drip YOU, not a broker, have to be the owner of record.

    Fidelity does not participate in the company drip. It simply takes drip cash to market and buys as many shares as the drip cash will buy, as do all brokers I am aware of. The brokers go to market on different days and at different times on the same day. None of them care how much they pay per share because they have no skin in the game. Whatever the broker pays, that's what the customer pays. The result is customers at different brokerages pay different prices per share....and the difference can be significant, even if the shares are bought on the same day. Pay attention to the responses to the drip survey I will post Friday.

    The exception with Fidelity is when a company offers a discount to drip with the company. ETP offers a 5% discount and HCN offers 3%. Fidelity automatically enrolled with the company's drip agent. I did not have to ask them.

    Understand this: Dripping with the company means new shares are issued. Total shares outstanding increases. In the typical broker drip, the broker buys existing shares in the open market. No new shares are issued. Thus total shares outstanding do not increase.

  • Reply to

    Selling NSAM

    by celtsfan1313 Mar 11, 2015 3:36 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 11, 2015 4:12 PM Flag

    Ah, you remember well. When nsam's articles of incorporation were filed, 1.5 billion common shares were authorized.....1.0 billion "regular" and .5 billion "performance". Yep, they contemplate taking one third of the company for free. Yep, they will deny that, saying that is a preposterous statement. If so, why authorize 1/3 of the company in robber shares?

  • Reply to

    DAR gets elected!

    by hsterniac Mar 10, 2015 11:51 AM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 11, 2015 2:55 PM Flag

    You don't need my permission or for that matter, anybody's. Go for it.

  • Reply to

    Fidelity bought drip shares today

    by dar200 Mar 10, 2015 4:59 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 11, 2015 9:59 AM Flag

    Not tutes. Brokers buy drip shares for dripping customers.

    Fidelity buys drip shares 3 business days before the pay date so those buys settle the day the cash comes in.

    Several brokers buy drip shares on the pay date, so they hold customers dividend cash for 3 business days without paying the customer interest. I call it stealing.

    And then there are the ultra "steal the float" brokers.....Ameritrade and I think Schwab. They buy drip shares the first business day after the pay date and pay for them 3 business days later.

    So, for this dividend, Ameritrade receives the dividend cash on Friday (and they pay down their line of credit).
    They buy the drip shares Monday and pay for them the following Thursday (when they draw from their line of credit). Thus Ameritrade "steals" (my opinion word) 6 days worth of interest on their customers dividend cash.
    When Monday is a holiday, they get a full week.

  • Hope they bought in the morning. They usually do.

    If I recall correctly from the last drip survey, USAA, for the first time, had the same cost per share as Fidelity because they hired Fido to do their back office work.

    Will post the usual drip survey Friday morning. If enough participate, we'll find out which broker is the goat with the highest cost per share.

  • Reply to

    DAR gets elected!

    by hsterniac Mar 10, 2015 11:51 AM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 10, 2015 12:04 PM Flag

    A waste of my time. Hamo will listen politely, mumble a few platitudes, thank me for my call and then ignore the whole thing. Not enough clout here. Much better if the CEO of Steadfast made that call.

  • Reply to

    Dismal market performance

    by dar200 Mar 9, 2015 4:07 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 10, 2015 11:05 AM Flag

    I'm not focusing on one day. I'm focusing on a management action which I consider detrimental to shareholders. Does it not occur to you that they are hiding something when they fail to disclose a common disclosure they used to disclose?

    Does it not occur to you that when they fail to tell you what they expect to accomplish in 2015, you have no way of assessing whether they did a good job in executing the action plan to attain those accomplishments?

    You are a part owner of a business. You have a right to know in general terms what management's plans are for the year and the expected result of those plans. They just denied me that right. THAT'S what I'm angry about.

  • Reply to

    Dismal market performance

    by dar200 Mar 9, 2015 4:07 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 10, 2015 9:49 AM Flag

    No it isn't. A short is a trader. I am a part owner of this business. Management works for me and other shareholders. I have every right and reason to be angry at management for this step away from transparency and every right and reason to try to get them to reverse this course.

    None of this means I have changed my opinion as to whether these two companies remain a good long term investment for their respective but different reasons.

  • Reply to

    Email sent to nrf/nsam analysts

    by dar200 Mar 7, 2015 2:35 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 9, 2015 4:34 PM Flag

    My opinion is 99% no dividend decrease (when combined) with Europe spinoff or any spinoff. It's just not done.

    BTW, there is no cad confusion with nrf. 1Q will be between 42 and 46 cents. NRF has morphed into SUI with less seasonality. Hess said at CC something like 4Q and 1Q are worst quarters for hotels.

  • Reply to

    press release for closing the offering

    by ruswise Mar 9, 2015 3:59 PM
    dar200 dar200 Mar 9, 2015 4:13 PM Flag

    Don't hold your breath.

  • Relative to major indexes and equity reits.

    Self-inflicted and richly deserved, imo.

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