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Energy Transfer Partners, L.P. Message Board

dar200 251 posts  |  Last Activity: 1 hour 25 minutes ago Member since: Nov 16, 1998
  • Only selling 12 million now....48 million to be borrowed by DB for forward sale agreement.

    Public price = 18.65 (for buyers Tuesday or Wednesday as they get dividend). Underwriters pay nrf 18.14 (2.79% on 18.25) before nrf expenses.....say another penny. So, 18.13 minus 40 cent immediate dividend = 17.73 net net before adjustments under forward sales contract.

    Option shares at same price if issued (settlement date) by 3/9 the record date for div. If option shares issued after 3/9, subtract 40 cents.

  • Reply to


    by dar200 2 hours 19 minutes ago
    dar200 dar200 1 hour 41 minutes ago Flag

    Oh, "more fees" was a millisecond. Took me 3 minutes to quantify it to cad per share increment.

  • dar200 dar200 1 hour 45 minutes ago Flag

    Good point. I was just thinking cash in - cash out.

  • Reply to

    Combined over 43

    by dar200 5 hours ago
    dar200 dar200 1 hour 46 minutes ago Flag

    Don't know until I see nre prospectus. If nre cad .20, they won't pay out 20.

    But if nrf earns 1.50 x 12 = 18.00
    And nre earns .20 x 20 = 4.00

    But Hamo ain't gunna settle for 12 x cad (an 8.333% cap rate). More to come. Don't know what or when but know Hamo ain't gunna settle for 8.33% cap rate.

    I think getting added to the RMZ in May will finally get the market to look at nrf as an equity reit. That will help the multiple, maybe to 14 (7.14% cap rate). If so, 1.50 x 14 = 21.00 plus 4 for europe = 25 combined. Not unreasonable, imo.

    BTW, Hamo will not let nre out with 20 cents. The spin ratio will be 1 for 4 so it goes out with 80 cents. Aggregate value (market cap) will be the same but the "optics" will be better with 80 cents and a 16 price than 20 cents and a 4 price. He could even do 1 for 5 to make cps a buck.

    I really don't care how he does it as I am confident the combined value will be significantly higher than leaving europe cad inside nrf.

  • dar200 by dar200 2 hours 19 minutes ago Flag

    All time intraday high and all time closing high. Looks like a few are starting to figure out nsam is getting a boost to cad per share from nrf selling 60 million shares. Only took them 3 days. Took me about 3 minutes.

    And this is without nsam publishing first estimate of 2015 cad per share. I hope they release tonight, along with nrf slides.

  • Reply to

    Mr Dar one question please

    by lipkalr 6 hours ago
    dar200 dar200 2 hours 49 minutes ago Flag

    Thank you. I will call a restaurant I have in mind to see if they do gift cards and to get their consent to keep both sides anonymous other than screen names. Will post later because they don't answer the phone until just before they open.

  • Reply to

    Mr Dar one question please

    by lipkalr 6 hours ago

    You have more patience than I, david.

  • 18.45 + 24.63 = 43.08....and this is on ex div day.

    NRF 1.60 / 18.45 = 8.67%, a table-pounder for yield investors.

    IMO, market still does not understand nsam's growth potential. Needs some spoonfeeding and another few quarters of rear view mirror.

  • Reply to

    Mr Dar one question please

    by lipkalr 6 hours ago

    Read the post I responded to as many times as you have to in order to comprehend what my reply really said.
    I am not a comprehension teacher. No, I won't be gentle. If you can't understand the English language and the context it is written, that's not my problem.

  • Reply to

    Down a dollar (con't)

    by lunco 6 hours ago

    Right on the mark, lunco, but you wasted a lot of time and typing for a jerk like wrongtillthe30th. No amount of reason, logic and sound investing reasoning can pierce that veil of ignorance.

    You responded to morbid stupidity (which is defined as a brain energy so low it just about keeps the vital organs functioning.....there is nothing left over for even minimal intellectual activity). I suggest you not waste your time on posters like this.

  • Reply to

    FBR analyst revision

    by jdaugs3 Mar 4, 2015 9:40 AM

    Hamo has all the money he needs. That doesn't stop him from doing accretive or strategic deals. Same with Fisher. If they can find a win-win deal between them, they will do it without blinking an eye.

  • Reply to

    NSAM March 22.50 calls

    by dar200 7 hours ago

    Just bought to cover at 24.5308 for 2,580 for dinners. Can't resist a bit better than 1% in less than 45 minutes.

    Roll me over, turn me over and do it again. Gladly, just as many times as the market lets me. I expect presentation slides out this week and resulting price over 25. In any event, I have until March 20 to take my profit on the calls.

  • Reply to

    NSAM March 22.50 calls

    by dar200 7 hours ago

    Fidelity was showing 10 million when I placed the order, down from over 12 million a few days ago before DB had to borrow 40 million. Wait till next short interest report. NSAM may make the biggest percentage increase list in WSJ.

  • Just sold 10,000 nsam short, netting 24.789 (say 24.79) guaranteeing a minimum profit of 2.29 per share when the bid on the call was 1.95. If you are holding these calls, you don't have to get screwed by the market makers' spreads. Just sell short at the price you want then exercise the call to cover the short position.

    The only thing you give up is a price in excess of your short sale price before the call expires March 20.

    If nsam goes down enough, I'll buy to take the short profit and do it over and over again before the call expires if the volatility lets me.

  • Reply to

    Playing the offering flip

    by dar200 Mar 2, 2015 11:50 AM

    Just sold this 4,000 for 24.4276......4142 profit plus 400 dividend = 4.85% in 3 days. Pretty good flip, imo.

  • Reply to

    Down a dollar

    by longtillthe30th 9 hours ago

    Poor baby, crying because the nipple is not at your lips 24/7.

    Get lost. You are too stupid to own NRF.

  • Reply to

    FBR analyst revision

    by jdaugs3 Mar 4, 2015 9:40 AM

    As soon as nsam announced a minority interest in Island Hospitality, I knew they would someday own it all.
    If nrf is going to continue to build the hotel business, I think cldt is inevetible with nsam buying the balance of Island. It's just a matter of making the numbers work because I think a lot of cldt shareholders (especially the bigshots) would like to have a stock for stock tax deferred merger.

    Problem is Hamo's cost of capital is too high (nrf's price too low). He will not do a dilutive deal and cldt will not accept a deal without a premium. Thus, the numbers just don't work now.

  • Yup, your calculation has to subtract taxes to determine how much you have left to buy common. Then again, there is practically no upside to preferred from here. Inflation WILL erode your fixed principal and fixed income.

    Had you bit the tax bullet in April, 2012 when I suggested selling preferred to buy common, just think how much wealthier you would be now. Yeah, there is much less upside to common now than in April, 2012, but that is better than next to no upside to today's preferred.

  • I just have to add. There is a proper place for preferreds and bonds in the portfolios of the right people. Very broadly (and general rules have exceptions), anybody in retirement whose current income (soc sec, pensions, dividends) does not comfortably exceed (by at least 25%) normal retirement spending should own some cash, bonds and preferreds to avoid being forced to sell equities in down markets (like Feb, 2009). You trade a guaranteed inflation loss to avoid a monster loss being forced to sell equity at the bottom of a down market.

    My retirement income exceeds normal spending by more than two private pay nursing homes. It is highly unlikely I or my widow will ever be forced to invade principal. I am investing for my children and grandchildren. My time horizon is infinite. That's why there is no place in my portfolio for guaranteed losses to inflation

  • microwishin

    You are going to wait a long long time for specific investment advice from me. I don't give it to anybody I don't know everything there is to know about them. Too many variables.
    Different strokes for different folks. What may be the best advice for Able may be the worst advice for Baker.

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