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The Boeing Company Message Board

donwshuper50 400 posts  |  Last Activity: 6 hours ago Member since: Feb 26, 2011
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  • donwshuper50 donwshuper50 6 hours ago Flag

    Koine Greek for the New testament Aramaic for the Old testament

  • Reply to

    BA 401K summary of case and why settled

    by donwshuper50 Aug 28, 2015 9:32 PM
    donwshuper50 donwshuper50 9 hours ago Flag

    if you read parts of the case - and the scotus case- its obvious BA settled- they ran out of BS excuses re standing, time bars, and even their own consultants under oath got tweaked.

    My guess - pending more details is at least 170,000,000 plus attorney fees both theirs and plaintiffs - for 9 years.

  • donwshuper50 donwshuper50 9 hours ago Flag

    " Clinton has repeatedly defended her handling of the material by claiming none of the emails were marked classified at the time they were sent."

    Knowledgeable security and legal types claim that excuse is not worth the breath to utter it - espeically in court and along with ' wiping" the server knowing of pending/possible litigation going back to intial questions re benghazi. Hillary will skate- but Huma and C mills should now hire Martha stewert to assist on how to spruce upm window bars. Or possilby if faced with 30 to 50 years or more in club fed will drop a dime ...

    Buy stock in popcorn and your favorite drink- it'sl be a while before the routund lady sings ..

  • Reply to

    BA 401K summary of case and why settled

    by donwshuper50 Aug 28, 2015 9:32 PM
    donwshuper50 donwshuper50 10 hours ago Flag

    Of course there is also the higher fund management fees by maybe 1 to 2 percent, plus the loss of gains on the say $100/year ,etc. I'm trying to figure aout what part of the filing to extracdt to get a better estimate- and also unknown to me at the moment is the Tech fund fiasco and the losses involved. Dont know if that is part of the settlement. That amount could be significant. And it depends on how far back they will go- perhaps to 1997 thru 2007 ( about 10 years ). for about 170K employees. Normally lawyers get 15 to 20 percent of the settlement plus attorney fees. My SWAG at the moment is still around $ 1K to 2K per average person who was in one or more of the 4 to 5 funds in the complaint. There appears to be NO question that BA settled due to the SCOTUS case, because it became obvious they would lose- and have to pay out even greater $$ re penalties. Nothing personal - just business.

  • Reply to

    BA 401K summary of case and why settled

    by donwshuper50 Aug 28, 2015 9:32 PM
    donwshuper50 donwshuper50 12 hours ago Flag

    Appeals court allows Boeing 401(k) plan case to proceed as class action.
    Schlichter Bogard & Denton
    Press Release
    12/18/2013

    On November 26, 2013, the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals rejected the Boeing Company’s request to appeal the order of Chief Judge David R. Herndon of the United States District Court for the Southern District of Illinois, which granted class certification to participants in Boeing’s 401(k) Plan, one of the largest in the United States, for their claims that Boeing personnel responsible for managing the plan breached their fiduciary duties under the Employee Retirement Income Security Act (“ERISA”). Spano v. Boeing Co., No. 13-8026 (7th Cir.). Schlichter, Bogard & Denton has been appointed class counsel for the participant class, which consists of 170,000 Boeing employees and retirees. The ruling clears the way for the class to proceed to a resolution of their claims that the 401(k) plan had excessive fees and imprudent investment options.

  • donwshuper50 donwshuper50 13 hours ago Flag

    ERISA Section 413
    § 1113. Limitation of actions
    
No action may be commenced under this subchapter with respect to a fiduciary's breach of any responsibility, duty, or obligation under this part, or with respect to a violation of this part, after the earlier of--
    (1) six years after (A) the date of the last action which constituted a part of the breach or violation, or (B) in the case of an omission the latest date on which the fiduciary could have cured the breach or violation, or
    (2) three years after the earliest date on which the plaintiff had actual knowledge of the breach or violation;
    except that in the case of fraud or concealment, such action may be commenced not later than six years after the date of discovery of such breach or violation.
    Category:
    • ERISA

  • donwshuper50 donwshuper50 14 hours ago Flag

    Schlichter explains that he represents employees and retirees of Edison International. The 401(k) plan involves several billion dollars. Schlichter says that the contention is that plan participants should get better rates than “retail fees that a $500 investor would pay.” The trial judge found one retail fund to be excessively priced, given that institutional rates were available to the company. As to three other similar funds, the judge found that no claim could be brought against Edison because the funds had been in the plan for more than six years.

  • Reply to

    BA 401K summary of case and why settled

    by donwshuper50 Aug 28, 2015 9:32 PM
    donwshuper50 donwshuper50 15 hours ago Flag

    Boeing also cites declarations of Gary Bland and Tony Cappetto for its argument that no
    actionable misconduct occurred after 1997. Doc. 407 at 3 (citing Doc. 213-51, ¶¶3–9 and Doc.
    213-57, ¶¶3, 5). However, both witnesses left Boeing years before Plaintiffs filed this action.
    Doc. 213-51, ¶1 (Bland resigned July 2001); Doc. 213-57 (Cappetto resigned May 2004). Thus,
    they have no knowledge of how Boeing managed the Plan and funds throughout the limitations
    period and cannot state whether any breach occurred during that time

  • donwshuper50 donwshuper50 15 hours ago Flag

    Schlichter Bogard & Denton
    Press Release
    12/18/2013

    On November 26, 2013, the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals rejected the Boeing Company’s request to appeal the order of Chief Judge David R. Herndon of the United States District Court for the Southern District of Illinois, which granted class certification to participants in Boeing’s 401(k) Plan, one of the largest in the United States, for their claims that Boeing personnel responsible for managing the plan breached their fiduciary duties under the Employee Retirement Income Security Act (“ERISA”). Spano v. Boeing Co., No. 13-8026 (7th Cir.). Schlichter, Bogard & Denton has been appointed class counsel for the participant class, which consists of 170,000 Boeing employees and retirees. The ruling clears the way for the class to proceed to a resolution of their claims that the 401(k) plan had excessive fees and imprudent investment options.

  • donwshuper50 donwshuper50 15 hours ago Flag

    Yo dummy- although the current BA employment is around d 160K, the suit only covers those up till 2006-7 and only or those in since 1997-98. Like most rip and read reporters who don't take the time to read the suit, you continue to spread large quantities of M e r d

    don't have a nice day !

  • Reply to

    BA 401K summary of case and why settled

    by donwshuper50 Aug 28, 2015 9:32 PM
    donwshuper50 donwshuper50 19 hours ago Flag

    OH BS take it up with the SCOTUS- it depends on the type of claim, as in they miscalculated your benefits and shorted you- you have 5 - 6 years. But if they overpay you- then there is no limit. .
    Please just FOD

  • Reply to

    BA 401K summary of case and why settled

    by donwshuper50 Aug 28, 2015 9:32 PM
    donwshuper50 donwshuper50 19 hours ago Flag

    No- AFIK it was started by some St Louis types in 2006- most likely a MCD flake .The suit covers the time frame from about 2000 to 2007, when BA changed providers- sort of - ( ING- an offshoot of State street - Citi ) and cut the fees. I'm still trying to untangle the resultant mess at least a summary of it.
    So at first cut it appears that only those participants in 4 or 5 funds and until 2007 will have some $$ coming. BUT there was also mention of a Cluster** by providing the Infamous tech fund earlier.

  • Reply to

    BA 401K summary of case and why settled

    by donwshuper50 Aug 28, 2015 9:32 PM
    donwshuper50 donwshuper50 Aug 28, 2015 11:42 PM Flag

    ++++ Above is most of the basis for the case - There were other issues that came up- but this short summary simply cannot explain them.
    Now normally there is a 6 year time limit to file an ERISA case- going back only 6 years from date of discovery or filing. So the case initially only went back to about year 2000 for an estimate of damages, etc. ( But SCOTUS shot down that kind of limit for this kind of case. - Which in My opinion is why BA- after arguing that for 9 years, settled- they figured to lose even more if they went to trial. As to amounts involved - at best some numbers shown in doc 409 **may ** give a clue.
    Total employment 2005 153,000 2000 198,000 2003 167,000
    Source Boeing compay website

    Use approx 160,00 for total time between 2000- 2005

  • donwshuper50 donwshuper50 Aug 28, 2015 10:56 PM Flag

    .." the money has been listed, at least a big chunk of it "

    Oh really ? post your source !

  • Reply to

    BA 401K summary of case and why settled

    by donwshuper50 Aug 28, 2015 9:32 PM
    donwshuper50 donwshuper50 Aug 28, 2015 9:34 PM Flag

    E) Accounting for all of State Street’s multiple revenue streams (the two sources disclosed in the
    contract plus the three others), State Street’s compensation skyrocketed—from $13.29 per-participant in 1998 to $103.11 by 2005 (a total of $19 million that year alone)—an increase of 779%, seven times larger than the increase in the number of Plan participants. This was 3 to 4 times the $20–$25 rate that Boeing itself concluded in 1997 was a reasonable fee. Plaintiffs’ expert, Al Otto, determined that a similarly-sized Plan should have paid no more than $37–$42 per participant each year, and thus that Boeing caused over $42 million in Plan losses from excessive administrative fees from 2000 through 2005. Even Boeing’s own consultant (TPI), confirmed Otto’s opinion of this rate for similar plans, finding a market benchmark range of $30.42–$45.42 per-participant.
    State Street also received the equivalent of $76.26 per-participant in 2000, $62.95 in 2001, $50.90 in 2002, $77.13 in 2003, and $92.10 in 2004—far in excess of the reasonable fee range for similar plans. An additional $284,903 of excessive fees in 1997 increases this total.
    F) While ERISA holds fiduciaries to the standard of a prudent expert familiar with industry practice, Chief Investment Officer Gary Bland, who was in charge of monitoring State Street’s compensation until 2001, admitted “I don’t know a sprigging thing about revenue sharing
    G) When it finally did so, in May 2007 after this lawsuit was filed (Doc. 372-2 at 4 (198:15–18)), Plan fees dropped to a flat $32 per participant with no additional revenue sharing amount, exactly what Otto and TPI found the Plan should have been paying all along.
    While ERISA holds fiduciaries to the standard of a prudent expert familiar with industry practice, Chief Investment Officer Gary Bland, who was in charge of monitoring State Street’s compensation until 2001, admitted “I don’t know a sprigging thing about revenue sharing

    ++++ Above is most of the basis

  • This will be eventually a multi part post So wait a bit before jumping in

    Re the BA 401K settlement
    Following is my attempt at a short summary of 9 years of litigation in the case SPANO v Boeing filed in Southern District of Illinois and taken mostly from 3 documents- 2 from SPANO and one from a related case ( same plaintiff lawyers) from SCOTUS

    1) SCOTUS TIBBLE ET AL . v. EDISON INTERNATIONAL ET AL .
    No. 13–550. Argued February 24, 2015—Decided May 18, 2015
    SPANO v Boeing
    2) Case 3:06-cv-00743-NJR-DGW Document 408 Filed 02/10/14
    3) Case 3:06-cv-00743-NJR-DGW Document 409 Filed 02/10/14

    Case filed initially in 2006- initially to cover previous 6 years of fee issues in BA 401K

    From doc 408
    A) Until October 1997, Boeing managed the Plan itself and paid the Plan’s administrative
    expenses of $3.5 million per year, while participants paid only investment management expenses
    B) The Plan had five investment funds, managed as separate accounts specially established for the Plan
    C) Boeing then decided to outsource administration of the Plan, and to have participants pay the expenses. During the selection process, Gary Bland, Boeing’s Chief Investment Officer, recognized that participants should be charged no more than $20–$25 per person per year for administration
    D) Boeing chose its corporate banker—State Street Bank & Trust—to administer the PlanThe 1997 administrative services agreement provided for State Street to be paid from two sources: a $3.50 per-participant annual fee Boeing also committed, without vetting any potential funds, to use a fourth mutual fund from State Street’s affiliate, State Street Global Advisors (SSgA), thereby providing a further benefit to its banker
    +++ to be continued

  • donwshuper50 donwshuper50 Aug 28, 2015 7:48 PM Flag

    ANOTHER odd issue - although the fed regulations/code prohibit anyone violating the Natiional security codes and being convicted of a felony cannot ever hold federal public office - it will not apply to Clinton even if convicted. reason The constitution defines the qualifications for president- age and citizen. Being a convicted felon is NOT an legal impediment or disqualification for president. To get rid of a president- takes impeachment by the house and conviction by the Senate.

    My guess is we will have a choice between Biden or Trump - we are doomed.

  • Reply to

    Reduce Gun Crimes

    by donwshuper50 Aug 27, 2015 6:32 PM
    donwshuper50 donwshuper50 Aug 28, 2015 5:38 PM Flag

    who is number one ? and who is the highest ranked in the U.S. - and in that city is it Dimowit or republican run ?

  • Reply to

    Reduce Gun Crimes

    by donwshuper50 Aug 27, 2015 6:32 PM
    donwshuper50 donwshuper50 Aug 28, 2015 5:35 PM Flag

    When finger guns are outlawed , only dimowits will have fingers to pick your pocket

  • donwshuper50 donwshuper50 Aug 28, 2015 3:35 PM Flag

    the $$ terms have not yet been published or stated. But having read significant parts of the case, I think I can make a rational guess- but it will take a while. and it is NOT pension but 401k funds at issue. One must look at the dates and the specific complalint.

BA
133.24+1.37(+1.04%)Aug 28 4:01 PMEDT