Would you not agree that each step from tribal hunter-gatherer society to city state to a simple senatorial democracy to complex multi-cameral democracy with a complex jurisprudence .. that each such step is a step toward "socialisticism"?
The burdens of government are progressively shared and delegated. Amongst rational men the debate hinges upon extent of controls relegated to government, but not on wholesale issue of dismantlement. Jefferson, the popular FF of the southern historians, was in every sense an extremist tea-bagger (he was also a chicken, riding back to Montecello at any threat of the redcoats in Philly). George Washington was initially such a slave owning "republican" (that's what Jeff's party was called) but after fighting an 8 year long war came to realize the essential need for a strong Federal government. GW flipped to Federalist an freed his slaves upon his death and distibuted his estate over 32 relatives. GW could have appointed himself "Imperator" but did not, keenly understanding the new system that Adams and Franklin had invented.
This was the greatest founding father...one who mupheld enlightened principles vs foisting a Napoleanic order upon the serfs.
Democracy IS socialism by its very nature.
I fully believe the system is fragile and may not survive this century..even a few more decades. When people who cannot find NJ on a map, who have no clue what causes the seasons, and who believe the hand of Santa Claus controls the outcome of every stupid thing they do, when such people are entrusted to vote, to continually renew the ingenious system of Adams and Franklin....we sir are doomed.
We have a history since QEI deforested our countryside and created famines for the next 500 years. My immigrant ancestors were "potato famine" Irish, got mixed up with Joe Kennedy, Bugs Moran and co. But we never endured what you Ashkenazy suffered under the Hun in the mid-20th century Europe. But now that the Tim McVeigh GOP has taken control I expect there could be similar ugliness in this country. Can you imagine a "President" Perry toting his gun around the oval office? well, Live by the sword ....
yes..this was for fun. glad you agree.
I understand then that you are of King David's
(or, King Herrod's) tribe, suffered under Pontius Pilatus, etc...
I am actually Celtic (Irish)
and proudly we claim (and often, after enough ale) to be one of the seven lost tribes.
Of course, we'd still be heathen if Patrick Santus had not broud the written word as a captures Brit under Hengis to our people...thus
enabling us to re-fertilze all of Europe after the Fall of Rome. Why, our little Irish settlements in such small burroughs by names of Paris, Bruxelle, Koln, Aix-en-Provence (Charlemagne's home town), etc, formed the kindling of the flame that ultimately became the Rennaissance, then Enlightenment, the age of modern democracy, and as you so astutley observe, the modern era of the insipid.
which barbarian tribe are you from?
don't tell me the longer lived Greeks are
doing better than Rome.
In any case, Washington is the modern Rome.
We can and will tax and bully (with our drones and boots on the ground) for the next century or so. Why, just think of
President Rick Perry, if you want to think about Caligula, with his strap on... gun
in the oval office. I'd prefer Bill Clinton with a cigar, or Obama with a speech, anytime over that kind of lunacy.
If you haven't studied Latin then
you really haven't studied Roman history, so don't
presume an understanding of the Imperatori,
or much of anything else for that matter.
Obama is a Claudius. Bush was a Nero.
If we get a Tim McVeigh Tea-bugger you will
understand what a Caligula... no, actually... what
a Commodus Imperator is like.
You are right. Big changes coming. Tim McVeigh Tea Baggers are done. A new age of reasonableness is about to begin.
Great discussion..keep it coming..thanks to all of you. I could cut paste and edit all of this into a great commentary on the stock for my notes.
I have initiated a position in this attractive company, but a little new to the industry. I'd appreciate hearing from serious minded people on:
(1)Long Term growth prospects of the company; eg,I understand they are adding more ships..over what time base and how many?
(2) What does one ship contribute to revenues?
(3) Are there any negatives or bigs risks, other than the obvious one of a blow-out on the scale of BP?
(4) What are reasonable expectations for the stock pps going forward?
(5) Why is the div'd so large? Is it at risk?
Stayed on the farm for generations while the modern world passed them by and today they can't eak out a living, so they've decide to destroy the government, which helped to create the modern society. It's all frustration born of their own failings. Tea Baggers are the party of angry white males, and their multiple wives. Tea Baggers, Glenn Beck, Ron Paul, ... the whole silly scum bag full of losers, is the party of Tim McVeigh.
(1) PROFITABILITY. When can this company turn profitable? Of course, growth is essential at this stage and requires leverage, so I think
that profitability is not a relevant question now. But when should we see the oss rate drop to zero? I think 5 years is ok. The essential question is accelerating GROWTH
(2) GROWTH. The main thing to look for here is an acceleration of growth. The 5% q 2 q membership growth seems weak. I like to see a >40% annual growth rate for a booming concept company. So > 10% q 2 q subscription growth is a goal. If Zip does not achieve that in a year or so, I fear it will fall prey to COMPETITION.
(2) COMPETITION: frankly, everyone and his mother is into this business. More to come. It reminds me of early days of pc's. Is zip an Altair or an Imsai? Or is it Atari or is it Apple? It does remind me of Apple..someone said the "hipster" factor..that's what Apple had from the get go. But it's too early to tell. It isn't even obvious that one company will dominate in this space. At the moment, with the recent IPO, Bloomberg, etc., Zip is the flash..will it remain a sustained light in the space?
(4) DOWNSIDE: I read somewhere (NY Times, I think) that the insurance liability for a member is capped at $300K. That's just too little, and we may read of a member having a wreck and ending up bankrupt. This means members would need to carry their own liability insurance. This could sink ZIP and I would hope management is addressing it asap. Does Zip offer a liability upgrade? Hertz seems to think of car share as an offshoot of rentals, most of their clients are car renters who also own cars and have their own liability insurance. In any case, this is a spooky downside issue to me. Also..the hip factor demands cool cars, like electrics (I detest Coopers) and not clear Zip has enuf of those.
(5) The general economy and market and demographic trends: I think all of these (except for a major Depression..unlikely) favor ZIP. The migration back to the city, the rise of youth culture.. the people who want a cleaner greener planet..all of this favors zip.
I would think a ZIP truck biz in the burbs would work for Sunday afternoon carpenters, gardeners, etc. This is a major driver and all boats will rise.
It's a risky investment, but has a lot going for it. If it succeeds, the fortunate investor who holds and survives could see 1000% or more in pps appreciation. Next 2 years are really critical, and the growth rate is key.
All of this is IMO. I don't own shares yet but I am considering starting a modest position.