I can't believe the government allows these types of scams to occur.
What a ridiculous story Herbalife stock has become. It's been 2 years since the Einhorn bash (pump and dump), a year and a half since Ackman's presentation (painting the tape), and yet no resolution in sight. It is really just an show of how inept the FTC, SEC, State AGs, Congress, Herbalife, Ackman, Soros, Stiritz, and Icahn are.
The first group (FTC, SEC, State AGs) should have resolved the issue of whether or not Herbalife was breaking the law two years ago, and the SEC should have decided whether or not Ackman's crazy attack on a US company was illegal (fyi, it is not legal - but money buys legality).
The second group (hedge funds) showed us how horrible they are at trading. First Ackman needed to pay 10's of million of dollars to keep everyone interested in shorting and investigating Herbalife otherwise he would have covered all his shares to $100. He pulled back the shades and let everyone know how short hedge funds operate. They sell in the money calls, buy out of the money puts, short sell as many shares as possible, then they launch an attack on the company (Einhorn, Ackman, Chanos, and friends). Remember, as far as the SEC is concerned, hedge funds operate above the law, they only have to voluntarily submit information to the SEC, though there are still implications of tax evasion if they falsify profits. When short trades turn on this group of stock manipulators (Chanos the worst violator), they turn to their friends on CNBC, give CNBC cast early information on their next stock manipulation, then CNBC has Cramer tell everyone to sell that stock, when it gets really bad they hire Greenberg to write cherry pickin articles on the street and even come on CNBC to stay how angry he is that a particular stock is going up (HLF, OVTI, ULTA, GMCR, etc.) Ackman will even buy up to 30% of a company just to create the illusion that a stock is on fire. He uses 20 different sub-funds to skirt the laws about reporting 5% ownership.
Ackman further exposed the fact that hedge funds pay for investigative firms (firms setup by low-lifes that can keep real jobs due to their lack of a moral compass) to find any possible negative thing for Greenberg to report (Greenberg is an employee of Ackman, Chanos, Einhorn, and friends, but for some reason he never discloses this in his articles). These firms pay locals to go to Herbalife meetings just to find human nature at work, sales has always been a dirty business. They'll pay locals, law enforcement, congressmen, anybody for information to discriminate to wall street, so Ackman and friends can sell in the money call just before the news breaks. When things get really bad for Ackman and Chanos trades, they pay another type of firm to blog and post on useless message boards and websites. This is why QTR and Matt post articles on an almost daily basis, they are paid by a company to do this. They make more than texexec63 and justme571 because message board posts don't have any level of quality and really have no effect because those with real buying power don't look at these stupid boards.
Enough about Ackman, and his continuous painting of the tape per quarter's end, his millions of dollars of silent funds going to lobby congressmen, his illegal trades, etc. Herbalife has definitely played the worst out of all the groups, they could have done everything better to prove they are not a pyramid (although in reality, everything is pretty much a pyramid or ponsischeme, do you think Bank of America has enough cash to cover if all their customers pulled their funds on the same day, Ackman's pershing square is a ponsi, it just hasn't been raided by his clients - gotham was!). How has Herbalife spent $50+ million on a law firm that hasn't produced one thing or protected their investors from anything!? How has Herbalife not just created a database (like ackman's) where they know who's buying what!? How has Herbalife not sued pershing and all its clients for allowing an illegal attack on a stock (no matter what company is underlying that stock, it is still completely illegal to try to destroy a companies reputation)!?
That is outrageous, the only ones with no scruples that would be willing to destroy a legit company is Ackman, Einhorn, Tilson, and good ole' burn-face. They've got one of the biggest hard ons I have ever seen for destroying this company. 10 weeks! 3.5 million share short per week! that is by definition stock manipulation! creating fake selling pressure to manipulation the direction of a stock!
He said he had not sold a single share, when translated, "but I have bought puts and sold calls, and I have a dark pool call option agreement with ackman to sell him the remainder at $75 if the FTC green lights them!"
This is a fact, don't remove this yahoo board monitor!!!!
These shorts sellers pay a company that pays people to post on message boards, blogs, motleyfool, street, ny post, CNBC (for the super rich). The short sellers pay a middle man so that the blogger, poster doesn't have to disclose his relationship with a $300 million dollar short position in a $700 million dollar company. There is one on this board now.
What a scam this market is, hedgefunds write their own rules! I guess it finally proves my long held belief that short interest is usually under reported. Got to love dark pools!
I don't think there is much people don't know about the last group, if they weren't rich they would be posting on this board about how poorly their last trade went. Stiritz made some of the worst trades I have ever seen on HLF, I was really concerned he would be margin called in the low $50's. Icahn typically sounds ridiculous anytime he is on CNBC, and his DELL illogic was epic. His trade in HLF makes no sense now that it is known he never wanted 25% of Herbalife, let alone to buy the company outright. Plus his make out session with Ackman shows his true color, he only bleeds green.
Reminds me of Sept 20 of last year, the day after a huge spike in PMs because of the fed. All miners traded down 5% on light volume, then after the close trades of 5 to 20 million shares were reported for every miner!
There really needs to be a class-action against Icahn, this agreement he has with Ackman is material information, all conversations Ackman and Icahn have had regarding HLF is required by law to be in the public domain.
I've never seen a company issue this many shares before, not accounting for reverse splits, the company has issued over a trillion shares since October! You can be certain that the current share count is back to 500 million, though that includes some percentage of naked short shares.
Might be naked at the time the trade is placed, but there are shares being issued by the company to back that short trade.
Got to love short sellers, they trade the same tired pattern over and over and over and over again!
Correct, there is a clause for FTC action, but it is lower than 40, Icahn's profit will be off of the covered calls he's been writing since January.