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Energy Transfer Partners, L.P. Message Board

harehau 394 posts  |  Last Activity: 13 hours ago Member since: Oct 10, 2006
  • Reply to

    WTI to $40?

    by cbd0012003 Jan 12, 2015 9:17 AM
    harehau harehau Jan 13, 2015 3:20 PM Flag

    DB initiated with Hold, target $30. Wonder if they did this in anticipation of good guidance, where is that release?

    Analyst Josh Silverstein said, "Focusing in the oily Northeast Extension area, BCEI has consistently delivered
    strong results and top-tier margins while adding resource via the drill bit and accretive acquisitions, providing visibility to the forward outlook. Possessing a catalyst rich calendar, we see the NAV well supported against a lower commodity backdrop from BCEI s upcoming drilling program, providing inventory and efficiency gains to spur future growth."
    "In our view, BCEI stands out amongst smid cap E&P peers as a high-quality pure play DJ Basin oil growth company, although anticipated balance sheet leverage (2.2x YE14 moving to 2.7x at YE15 at $65/bbl oil) and fighting a strong decline rate (little base volume compared to other producers), keeps up cautious near term," he added.

  • harehau by harehau Jan 13, 2015 3:10 PM Flag

    Looked at a JPM report on their coverage group, about 20 cos, most of the big e and p s, EOG, PXD.... They see flat growth if the group assumes $50 price for 15. If you assume $60 for the next couple of years, prod increases around 400kb/d each year, they increased 800k last year. Their conclusion is the marginal high cost barrel is not the US shales, makes sense. With cost coming down, prices might not get back to $90 in the medium term, and we still get vol growth from the top tier shales. And that fits my bias for midstream, growth won't be maybe as robust, but maybe 500kb/d will need more infrastructure. Who knows, lots of forecasts being made in the changed environment without OPEC influence, maybe, still not convinced that they won't come back. Oil price has become the destabilizing factor for the market short term. Rates for 10 yr

  • Reply to

    WTI to $40?

    by cbd0012003 Jan 12, 2015 9:17 AM
    harehau harehau Jan 12, 2015 7:29 PM Flag

    Heard a comment today, that oil in the past 30 years has fallen 50% in 6 months, and in the next 6 months, on average, rises 50%, that would get us to $75. Seems we are going to have to lay down rigs in the marginal plays, should happen. And the comment that volatility will be less in the future with the short cycle shales being the marginal supply, they can ramp up or down in months vs years. But who knows, seems new territory. We'll find out in the next year. Seems there was a lot of capital chasing the new plays, MPO, HK... Would guess they don't come back, you then have cash flow to support growth and that's going to be less. And the conventional plays still need $80 to $100, I think, at least haven't seen anyone claiming otherwise. Just like everything else, technology will continue to change things.

  • Reply to

    commodity exposure

    by harehau Jan 10, 2015 2:11 PM
    harehau harehau Jan 12, 2015 6:00 PM Flag

    Birdog, that's a good question, seems should bounce back quicker but would ramp up faster, and we have to see hedges roll off. The analyst indicated he thought after we stabilize, we would see less volatility, with short cycle marginal barrels. I'm not sure anyone knows for sure, kind of uncharted territory. And is OPEC really gone, the Saudis could decide to stabilize at some price in the future, does make sense that now that projects don't take years, oil sands, deep water to come on line, that the volatility would be less, is that good for traders, seems good for investors. I'm still bullish on the midstream, but it could be less growth for next few years, same thing, the smaller players will be merged. Hi to Teresa.

  • Reply to

    commodity exposure

    by harehau Jan 10, 2015 2:11 PM
    harehau harehau Jan 12, 2015 4:05 PM Flag

    Interesting comment, oil down 50% 5 times in last 30 years in six month period, on average, rebounds 50% within 6 months. But the difference is the shales are more short cycle than the reserves in the past.

  • Reply to

    commodity exposure

    by harehau Jan 10, 2015 2:11 PM
    harehau harehau Jan 12, 2015 3:54 PM Flag

    Bought some OKE today, at $41, div could be $3.20 in 17, that's a 7.8% yield. Commodity exposure but betting prices recover later this year. My first choice was WMB but I already own to much, they have less commodity exposure, the div should be $3.25 in 17, around the same yield. Upside for OKE is they could be an attractive target for someone else. Had to remind myself, buy low and never sell.

  • Reply to

    WTI to $40?

    by cbd0012003 Jan 12, 2015 9:17 AM
    harehau harehau Jan 12, 2015 2:07 PM Flag

    Listened to the Goldman head of commodities, see $70 Brent in 12 mos. Thinks new paradigm with the shale quick ramp up and down vs conventional projects that take years. Shale is only 5% of global volumes, shows the magnitude of the new supplies at the margin. Did say that capital flows are the key to keeping prod growth going, I'm not sure that private equity and others will be as quick to dump more money into shales as quickly, and hedges will only help cash flow for a while. Would bet individuals will be more reluctant to supply capital. i do think we are in a new world for oil with OPEC seemingly gone, if they really are. A surprise would be a reversal by the Saudis to help the market, psychologically that would boost prices rapidly. Conventional oil was not the marginal supply at $100 oil, has that changed, don't think so. The shales are the marginal supplies, at what price? It's not $50.

  • Reply to

    commodity exposure

    by harehau Jan 10, 2015 2:11 PM
    harehau harehau Jan 12, 2015 12:27 PM Flag

    PAGP is up again today, seems the lesson there is if most of the midstream growth for the next couple of years is locked in, fixed revenues and de bottlenecking, should rebound. Even at $70 Brent, the core shales will do well and will need plants and pipe.

  • Reply to

    commodity exposure

    by harehau Jan 10, 2015 2:11 PM
    harehau harehau Jan 12, 2015 12:24 PM Flag

    They see $70 Brent in 12 mos. They think new paradigm, lower volatility in future because of shorter cycle of shales, months to adjust vs years with conventional reserves. Shales are only 5% of global production. Interesting that they can always see it clearly after the fact, and then you get some disagreement. Venture a guess that this doesn't take as long as it could have in the past, although the 09 rebound was fast but a lot of that was macro global, more demand. More China would help. Does seem we are going to get negative headlines in the the next few months, bankruptcies, layoffs, but also mergers which should help some.

  • Reply to

    WTI to $40?

    by cbd0012003 Jan 12, 2015 9:17 AM
    harehau harehau Jan 12, 2015 11:40 AM Flag

    Goldman, If I read correctly, lowered q1 price to $40 vs $80. See year in $50s. They don't know much more about what's going to happen than we do. Going to take a while for the flow to drop. Seems a perfect storm, OPEC gone, ME relatively quiet, global growth weak, 15 hedged. Probably the time to buy long term and forget about it for a year.

  • Reply to

    commodity exposure

    by harehau Jan 10, 2015 2:11 PM
    harehau harehau Jan 12, 2015 11:29 AM Flag

    Wow, these are the gurus most look to. So they think oil will be in the $40s vs $80 this quarter.

    Analysts at Goldman Sachs cut their three-month forecasts for Brent to $42 a barrel from $80 and for the U.S. West Texas Intermediate contract to $41 from $70 a barrel. The bank cut its 2015 Brent forecast to $50.40 a barrel from $83.75 and U.S. crude to $47.15 a barrel from $73.75.

  • Reply to

    commodity exposure

    by harehau Jan 10, 2015 2:11 PM
    harehau harehau Jan 12, 2015 11:24 AM Flag

    Some of the down moves make no sense, at least the magnitude, CNNX IPOd few months ago $22, never saw that, $30s, now below the IPO price and the revs are fee based from Noble and Consol, lots of drop downs to come. Also ENLC, Devon midstream, all fee based, again lots of drop downs coming. CNNX has no debt. Growth will be less in e and p, but the CNNX assets are in the middle of the Marcellus/Utica, the lowest cost play in the sector.

  • Reply to

    commodity exposure

    by harehau Jan 10, 2015 2:11 PM
    harehau harehau Jan 12, 2015 9:44 AM Flag

    Seems the reach for yield has pushed the REITs to over valued. They really look over done compared to the MLPs which are at 400 b pts spread to the 10 yr. A bunch of the MLPs don't make sense, CNNX, Noble, Consol's midstream came out in high $20s, went to low $$30s and is now is $22. And all of their revenue is fee based from the two sponsors with billions of drop down opps. Have to believe there is going to be a dramatic reduction in Appalachian drilling but looks overdone.

    The REIT dividend yield is 2.8%, or 80bp above the 10Yr Treasury (vs. 120bp LT average)

  • Reply to

    mpo

    by harehau Jan 9, 2015 3:46 PM
    harehau harehau Jan 11, 2015 7:11 PM Flag

    I don't, it was sent to me by someone who has gets their analysis.

  • Reply to

    commodity exposure

    by harehau Jan 10, 2015 2:11 PM
    harehau harehau Jan 10, 2015 6:44 PM Flag

    I do think WMB's div is safe for the three years.

  • Jerry, looked at a CS report 1/5, you can find it on Schwab. Shows the commodity exposure for various midstream cos. Access has 0% exposure, Williams Partners 5%, Rose Rock, SEMG's LP, 2%, EPD 4%, Crestwood 6%. Targa 22% to NGLs, but Atlas is worst at 62%, so the merger moves them in the other direction. Also OKS is at 51%. Markwest 37%. Based on this, understandable I think that TRGP, OKE are underperforming now, although WPZ was down 5% in 14, NGLS was down 3%. OKS was down 19%. Crestwood was down 32% but doesn't have much commodity exposure, theirs was more delay in ramping up dist. Basedon this, WMB still seems a good bet, the exposure to commodity move is not really justified. I would be buying more if I didn't own so much. CEQP looks like a good bet, they should get back on track this year. I want to own more TRGP, but could be more downside with commodity moves, APL merger. But longer term it should be the best franchise in the Permian. Also would like to own more MWE for the Appalachian franchise, although you get that with Williams, and would like to own OKE, a great NGL franchise from the Bakken down through the Rockies, to OK to the Gulf.

    Also, they showed the chart of what happened to the 10 yr T during the last raise of Fed funds rate, the 10 yr barely moved in the 4 to 5% range while the Fed rate went to 5%. Also the yields on MLPs didn't vary much but they did get hit with the 08 collapse but so did everything else. And they showed that with the 400 basis pt spread in the past, the MLPS did 20% plus over the next year. Couple with oil price concerns and this feels a good time in the next few months to buy midstream again if you believe oil has to come back. Interesting times.

  • harehau by harehau Jan 9, 2015 4:19 PM Flag

    The jobs report today, the headline is avg wages fell. Again not sure we have a inflation problem for a long time. How can the Fed raise rates, I don't they can with any justification. Time will tell, but still guessing we have lower rates for a long time, the 10 yr maybe gets to 3% in a few years. That's not going to kill equities and cos like OKE that are yielding 5% and growing 10% annually, the choice between OKE and a bond, no choice. I would guess that OKE could yield 3% in a couple of years, at $3.15 div, a $100 stock. Seems investors continue to believe that we can't have low rates for the longer term. If wages aren't increasing but technology knocks prices down a couple of % a year, the standard of living increases. Could be very interesting times, have to get used to deflation. Foreign to most.

  • harehau by harehau Jan 9, 2015 4:05 PM Flag

    OKE is under pressure with commodity plunge but they still are guiding $2.56 div this year and 10% plus through 17, $3.15 div in 17, 4% yield, $79 and 5% yield, $63. And would bet it is merged with a bigger co over that period.

  • harehau by harehau Jan 9, 2015 3:46 PM Flag

    cbd, you will enjoy this I think. Looked at an analysis of NAVs at the current oil, gas strip, $50s and $3s for the next couple of years and then $70/4. They did the same for $70, $4 and the winner by far was MPO, the NAV goes from $1 to $7, well over 400% upside, next best was in the 150% range. If one were inclined to speculate, a binary result, and you believed oil was coming back fairly soon, MPO could be a fun bet. A lot of ifs there, could be bankruptcy also. By the way SD was in the 120% upside range, a couple of cos at 150%. A lot of the better cos don't have the upside. Shows I think the perils of leverage and also the opp.

  • Reply to

    O.T. for Harehau

    by cbd0012003 Jan 7, 2015 5:09 PM
    harehau harehau Jan 9, 2015 2:22 PM Flag

    Feels like we are on the verge of guidance.

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