AmeriGas Partners LP Message Board
- Reply to
Earnings can be deceptive: Cash flow far more meaningful; PWE's is $1 billion plus annually
by infinitidrivr •May 8, 2013 9:42 AMWhitebear is just showing his ignorance. In order to determine the cash used and generated, one must add back noncash writeoffs such as depreciation and depletion. This isn't MBA stuff, its accounting 101 and its clear Whitebear is basically ignorant when it comes to reading financial statements.
-
When noncash expense writeoffs are added(depreciation/depletion), PWE's actually internally generated cash flow easily exceeds $1 billion annually.
- Reply to
Whitebear, Indexes and why I hold value/income investments
by infinitidrivr •May 6, 2013 2:29 PMCorrection to the above: ETE should have read ETP....have owned ETE also but don't now.
-
And with their pristine credit record, I'm sure the banks are going to jump at funding this takeover.
-
To assume the management of Corvex, etc. will give you a pop is an assumption...it might pop or bust. But to each his own.... Corvex and groups track record isn't very good and besides, if you think office buildings are a great investment, I guess you're smart and I'm dumb as a fencepost.
- Reply to
Whitebear, Indexes and why I hold value/income investments
by infinitidrivr •May 6, 2013 2:29 PMI've owned long term propane stocks FGP and APU. The latter pays 7%ish and has raised distributions 3-5% annually for many years. FGP yields 10% and has paid it for 18 years. You have to wince at the balance sheet but it is one heckuva franchise(Blue Rhino). Thinking of buying some STB, propane is increasingly being used in schoolbuses, autogas. Only 3 major distributors as two have been taken out in last 18 months. Pipelines: I own ETE(large scale, 7ish %; BX(Blackstone); T, VZ, VE, VNO pfds; CBL pfd D; NRP; Blackrock CEF's: BCF, BDJ, BGR, BCX, BME,BQR, BOE, BUI. These total about $1.2 million.
-
I have mentioned indexes poor performance as one reason I pick value stocks with an income component such as PWE.
Nasdaq down 30-40% since 2000.
S&P 500 hit 1600 last week, 13 years after it was at 1500(per Wall St Journal). Dow 30 strongly correlates with S&P500. Most fund managers fail to meet the indexes. Although one could argue that isn't the entire stock market, the NASDAQ is 25% of total market cap; S&P, not sure but those who know a little about statistics will tell you that is a high sample, hence highly correlative. Consequently ,I own about two dozen investments that pay on average about 7%, reinvesting some, spending some. -
I realize in this era of making a quick buck pop, that a more stable income investment might be more attractive to only a few. CWH only yields about 4%, I'll take ETP instead. Pipelines are a better investment than commercial office buildings....JMHO
-
I wouldn't be a good farmer and I think investments in gold are questionable. I have about two dozen investments that yield about 7%, no debt, own a home....But you are right about the corruption and some day folks will finally figure it out. But the politicians and investment magnates, scream freedom and Jesus and the public is sold.
-
Or maybe because the share price approximates book value and cash flow is about 20% of the share price per annum.
-
I think the RMR group of companies have offered over a long period a relatively stable and higher income than many of its counterparts. They have chosen less leverage but as the takeover suggests, their portfolio is of higher value than most recognize. As an income and value investor, I , too realize this,which is why I have been a long term holder. The negativity has in large part been to drive down the stock price for a takeover. Because the takeover looks more probable, I'm divesting my holdings and buying ETP and some other mlps.
-
I think the Seeking alpha's, Cramers, Motley Fool and even Morningstar at times have their own agendas. And I think there are other brokerage firms with hidden agendas taking an either overly positive or negative view depending upon their or their cronie's holdings. Sometimes they are negative because they want to drop the price because of those short positions or they may actually like the company as a potential takeover for them or their cronies. I am a retired individual investor who focuses on a limited number of income/value investments and find that seldom do these analysts examine the companies beyond a relatively superficial level. As for Cramer, he has been blind to the higher dividend/value stocks with the exception of some utilities(electric power and telecom, favors growth stocks(which are relatively less appropriate in what has been a flat economy). His assistant, Stephanie Link is far better informed than Cramer. The reports emanating from these sources, just like the AAA rating of bad securities, should be more robustly examined by the SEC to determine linkages for potential conflict of interest and corruption. And we need to begin minimum jail sentences up to much worse in an atmosphere of widespread corruption in both politics and business.
Sentiment: Strong Buy
-
Very impressive resumes for the new leaders. Long and Strong!
Sentiment: Strong Buy
-
Caveman bear just learned there was a thesaurus to help with some fancy words to get the naive to fall for the latest ponzi scheme: learn a few charts as if they're entirely clairvoyant(3 easy lessons) and short term trade the weak charts. I'll take the slow long money that will be holding PWE. Long and Strong!
Sentiment: Strong Buy
-
My ideas are beyond the grasp of caveman bear who strives so hard to believe his rants and insults, will abet his short term trade mentality, which competes vs. the likes of Goldman Sachs and Hedge Funds. As for indices, the NASDAQ is 30-40% below where it was in the year 2000; the Dow hit 10,000 in early 1998....get out the compounding tables. And, of course, there were the two 50% hits to the overall market since 2000. I'm projecting 5-11% dividends going forward and the underlying value of PWE; Canadian trade and budget patterns; value of oil/natural gas. Not going to argue with Caveman Ohiobear.
-
FGP pays $.50 per quarter....what else is relevant? It has paid it for 18 years and it is increasingly likely they will pay it another 18 years. Lots of propane being used...transportation...google propane autogas and by all means the Ferrellgas website. You should also look at Amerigas, pays about 7% but less risk. I'd recommend some of both depending upon your risk tolerance.
-
Western Canada has the third largest oil/gas reserves in the world. PWE has by far the largest land holdings in this space. It has a solid balance sheet with book equity well in excess of debt. It has cash flow that exceeds the dividend by a comfortable margin. It has peripheral land holdings that could further cut debt substantially. And should they cut the dividend in half(a highly unlikely event but just hypothetically), you might want to look at the global market potential for its products(pipelines and refineries both in East and West Canada), the probably approval of Keystone XL(and if not, other pipelines get built). Natural gas will be increasingly important as a fuel for electricity and transportation, and consumption is already growing rapidly...and look at the traffic jams of autos in the U.S. The U.S. can't even build a roundabout inside of 1 year so perhaps your grandchildren might have public transportation(in the vast majority of the country). Compare this to a stock market that has gained on average 2% the last 15 years. Canadian investments afford inflation protection, protection against a US currency collapse(not an unlikely event) and a 5-11% dividend while you wait.
Sentiment: Strong Buy
-
And it is important to note that State and local governments in the U.S. will give anything to attract or keep a potential employer....give/subsidize for them a building, waive taxes, etc.
-
CWH has been around a long time. The commercial office building market has been in the doldrums for many years also. CWH and RMR unfairly get the blame for what has been a terrible market environment for office buildings. In order to infuse capital into CWH, maintain credit rating, buy buildings, during this long period of time, they have spun off companies. SNH, HPT, and GOV are in better market environments and it would be unfair to make comparisons. GOV, HPT, SNH have some aspects that may be also suspect over the intermediate future. And it remains to be seen if SIR can function over the long term unless overall markets improve. SIR is riding a wave of attractive Hawaii renewals and a very attractive acquisition market. But unless office conditions improve, it is a lessees market...i.e. rent elsewhere, buy, because of the massive vacancies and empty buildings, not to mention downsizing. Accounting and legal staffs will continue to shrink as tax simplification occurs and there will be more arbitration clauses....these staffs are suffering. Corporate office staffs, government staffs will also shrink. And there is only so many seniors in U.S. that can afford private pay.
Most of my RMR holdings are in CWH pfd D, SNH, HPT. If the takeover occurs, I will get out of all of these because the pattern of these takeover artists is to sell the plums, pocket most the the cash and then bankrupt the companies, ultimately again. And it is all very legal. -
To add to an already ample cash flow to pay the dividend. Amen.