Do not matter. Too bad no one else understands their voodoo math . Iwonder if F and GM will finally o something to insure their survival.
uly 23 -- Ford, beset by the highest U.S. labor costs in the industry, is seeking to use contract talks this summer to ease the burden. Bloomberg's Keith Naughton has more on "Bloomberg Markets."
nails are pounding the coffin lid shut. The new contract will yield lower margins as we head for what most believe will be the end of these high sales fiqures.
We wait for July news it seems like it is all on the line .
Ford must show 150 results ,it is the only real profit driver.
The China myth has I explained years ago has now been proven .
What about the Europe nightmare ?
Everyone is starting to say Do not touch F or GM.
YIKES is it possible another run will not happen ?
Will we start the march of the next 3 to 10 years toward the bankrupcy ?
BOTH STOCKS SEEM TEMPTING I am already loaded with them .
Yet car sales cannot continue at this level, 7 of the top 7 selling cars are foreign
UAW will not accept the needed wage cuts , they are delusional just read lovelincoln, questionater,fly
WILL THE 150 finally deliever or is it all smoke ?
Someone tell me THE END IS NOT COMING
For in 14s GM below initial pricing .
P.S. does nt the price of Ford and GM tell you something is wrong.
The street is in fear of this new contract and the losses that will follow.
Jeffegg Not trying to be mean . But as usual right over your head. The point posters and myself are pointing out to you , is everyone besides the UAW [Wallstreet and everyone else] know s wage reduction are nessary for survival. In fact the last article I quoted from makes mention of what I have said here for years. This sale boom will end at some point.
And the U.S. auto needs to cut costs to survive.
The question is , what did F, GM, C, learn.
Do they finally lock everyone out . Or do they do the usual
Give in because they think they can make profits for awhile.and then a miricale will save them
And end up again with 6 million cars sold and 30 billion dollars lost.
UAW HEAD SAYS TALKS WILL BE DIFFICULT guess he did not ead jeffegg
Speaking of which
This year, the union wants to win wage increases for autoworkers after years of rising sales and profits among U.S. automakers while the manufacturers will want to hold down labor costs so they can remain competitive with Asian and German rivals.
GTE IT YET HOLD DOWN LABOR COSTS OR WE ARE DOOMED
WOW a few dollars over
3 years = 40k workers x 9k bonus
40k workers x 40 hours a week a 3 dollar wage reduction = 160 x 52 yearly = 8320 hours
Cut to normal working vacation time paid U.S. workers =
Overtime costs less at my 3.00 reduction
New workers cap at 17 bucks that is a heck of a savings
Cut health benifits to match the average Americans pay plan
FICA,SS reduction in matches to Ford
Now work on the math there buddy WHILE
You develope that superior flying car that is going to stop the endless slide of 7 of top 7 selling cars being foreign
Or the fact a Toyota is the same as a Fushion as a C 200 as a ______
And that everybody wants a BMW
Jeff, Questionater, Flying, limuffin, love and the rest are simply out to get the most $ from Ford before the bankrupcy.
I know they do not believe the nonsense they post. Well Jeff does after that last post , I see and old fashioned wah , wah the rich have more than me mentality.
IN THE END I JUST WANT THAT LAST FORD RUN TO HAPPEN so I can get out say 18
After that it will be nothing but a chance to buy some distressed property when GM , F collaspe.
And the panic enthues . But the demise of the U.S.A. has been over stated . We will survive without F , GM, C at least hopefully for mine and my kids lifetime.
I wholeheartly hate the destruction of the American jobs the manufactoring brought about by the UNIONS
The other pharmasist , teachers, engineers, chemists, and so many more by NAFTA .
Naw.... keep believing all the Korkers and his ilk and live in a trailer park while the companies make billions in profits
Spoken like a true UAW member . Who knows nothing about business . Keep it up and see FORD join the list
GM ,TWA,EASTERN,PAM AM ,ZENITH ,CHRYSLER,AMERICAN AIRLINES,US STEEL
AMERICAN AXLE AND SO MANY MORE
LIKE I SAID YOU WILL WIN THIS BATTLE but one day YOU WILL LOST THE WAR
Ford will be gone and your Grandkids will be serving up fries in Taylor , Southgate , Wyandotte, Lincoln Park driving a Toyota, Honda, Kia, Volskwagon.
Wondering why Grandad bargined them out of a job paying 15 bucks and hour, with health beni, a pension and vacation time.
While you retire and talk about the days when real MERICANS drove cars build of real steel [those plants along Jefferson are long gone ] not that Japense ,Korean plastic
MAY MY DAD REST IN PEACE AS HE TURNS OVER IN HIS GRAVE
My brother couple weeks ago bought a AUDI 7
TWO FRIENDS BMW LAST FEW WEEKS, another a TOYOTA
WE all come from or were raised to BUY MERICAN gosh darn it
Written by a card carrying UNION Member
For once I can say MO has posted something that makes sense. However his post is much better suited for a discussion elsewhere and has little bearing on what Ford faces in UAW talks or going forward once car sales come to a natural slowing. This board is about the owners[stock holders] making profits not about how UAW workers can raise their standard of living. Jeff , Questionater, Flying just do not get it.
With that said Toyotas intent has little to do with the situation GM, C, Ford faces with high labor costs eating into profits/margins.
by iluvamuffin • 6 hours ago Flag
I saw two cars yesterday flying an American flag. One was a toyota and the other a nissan. That is amazing, and mind blowing. We the public are so easily lead down the wrong path.
A long time UAW pumper and much disputed/discredited poster here ILUVAMUFFIN has just proved my point I have posted here many times.
THE AMERICAN public does not care where the car is made if it is cost effective.
Most Americans have trouble answering who won the Civil War between the States.
I hear it everyday , I bought Toyota what difference does it make
My Mother in law Ford white collar pulled up to their condo in my rental car a Kia
I said I am sorry there were simply No American cars
Just as I said that two people came over saying WOW we want to buy one of those how is it
And all over the complex all I saw was foreign cars MARCO ISLAND FL
She said I understand as she saw me look around . She said our complex is almost all foreign cars
When I attended FLETC I use to do car counts as I was walking to and from training/class
of foreign cars vs American it was astounding .
IT IS OVER BUT THE UAW JUST CANNOT GET IT .
Best one ever . How would you like them to start ?
GM to survive it is ovious to everyone we need a Third Tier
We told you this 5 months ago.
Sooner or later everything we can build will be built off shore.
Americans ARE NOT LOYAL IN ANYWAY TO OUR PRODUCT if ANYTHING THEY ARE LOYAL to'
SO LETS SIT DOWN AND and you guys take a 3 buck cut new workers will start at and
We can cut out the nonsense and move you from 1967 to 2015
You are kidding right ? 7 of the top 7 selling cars are foreign ?
Without the truck 150 Ford would not even be around .
Utterly absurd . Not a single reputable source will back high labor costs for the commondity product.
Nor will they back what he is saying. In fact reams of studies, articles, and books have been published with the topic of the UAW causing the demise of the Big 3. One need only to understand how Ford sold 6 million cars and lost 30 billion in 3 years. Ford always sells enough cars they just do always make a profit.
But with the poular seniment either not caring or against the UAW they are pounding the internet for support. Questionater is on the GM board non stop [I own the stock] does he ,of course not just there pumping the contract.
Americans do not care where their cars are built. That ship sailed 15 years or more ago.
Grasping at straws by even citing the number of thumbs up here. Which correlate directly to the known and admited UAW members.
IN the end UAW will win the battle but lose the war . Sadly.
"Yet he accuses the hourly laborforce of being greedy."
Please re paste a post where I have called the labor force greedy ?
I have called them over paid . Not caring about the long term of Ford Motor
Liars with the buy American when so many of them drive foreign.
QUESTION why the UAW contracts non union personal to patrol the UAW/GM Center on Jefferson in Detroit in a foreign car . Could it be cost ?
I TOTALLY GET YOU.
Your arguments border on a childs . Have been debunked by every major think tank, publication .
BUT I understand you want as much as you can get from Ford. Thats not greedy .
Greedy Definition having or showing an intense and selfish desire for something, especially wealth or power.
Never once called you greedy.
Oh and unlike many here , I carry a UNION CARD proudly so .
Here we go again with the nonsense. Profit does come in the automotive cycle . But so do losses. Record car sales end. Material costs change, other Countries have economic problems, wars happen and on and on.
ONCE AGAIN it was just a short time ago Ford sold 6 million cars and lost 30 BILLION in THREE years.
You are correct 8 BILLION is not enough , why do you think Ford is at 14 bucks ? It can turn on a dime. The cost to profits so far of the 150 is 1 billion estimated.
AGAIN you never answer the QUESTION there have been many times when if all the UAW workers banded together and contributed a portion of their checks, the UAW bank kicked in they could have bought GM or C.
Why did nt they become and employee owned company since profits never end.
BESIDES ALL THAT they have every right to make money , that is why we are who we are and Greece and these other places are who they are. You have every right to go find another job, when Ford ships yours to Mexico. WHICH again you never answer the QUESTION if labor is such a small part of the eqaution why does Ford keep off shoring. Are they trying to bankrupt the company ? Are they just stupid and the UAW knows better ?
As usual your UAW nonsense makes no sense at all. WHO HATES THE TRUTH ?
"They also hate the truth jeff"
Why would a stockholder hate the truth ?
We simply want profits . The stock is trading where it is because of profits , fear of the new contract and a few other reasons.
WHAT WE DO KNOW IS YOU HATE THETRUTH .
The fact is if Ford cannot increase their profit , by sending work to Mexico , why do it ?
Answer what you guys always avoid
Why do they send the work to Mexico ? Are they stupid ? Are they trying to bankrupt the company ?
YOU WILL NEVER ANSWER .
The reason is simple labor cost even when you add shipping in allows Ford to make a profit on a car they cannot build here because of UAW wages and benefits .
It really is not rocket science.
But then again this is the problem with the UAW , until they eventually build everything outside of the U.S. you will never get it.
And eventually when the bankruptcy comes ,like it did , you will all say I never saw it coming.
Jeffegg , everyone here is aware you have a difficult time understanding just about anything that has to do with basic economics or profit and loss .
See a short would be very upset that Ford is off shoring to reduce labor costs which in effect increases profit and margins. Which causes the stock to move higher. Which means the people who have in effect loaned money to Ford through stock purchases are re paid. As they have taken all the risk not the UAW. Which by the way could have bought GM or C and if labor costs do not matter paid you 100 and hour for all I care.
NOBODY except UAW cares about this move. Everyday I meet someone who has just bought a foreign car , but has family working at the Little 3 . And I have met dozens of UAW workers who own a Mercedes, BMW,AUDI ,I call them out on it and they just laugh. It is over ,cultural shift has happened. And when someone buys a F, GM, C they could care less where it is made.
As a very long ,long. I am estactic that Ford my be serious in saving itself. Although I doubt that they will ink the right contract. That is why I am out if we manage one last run up.
There is a glimmer of hope that Ford does understand the changes needed to labor costs to survive.
Not getting toexcited but perhaps we will see a strike and the UAW workers booted.
They need to only follow what Gannet did with th Detroit Newsaper Strike.
The workers begged for their jobs back. And many crossed the picket line.
Utter nonsense. Questionater has spewed this garbage for years here. He is currently doing the same thing on the GM board. Where he is soundly trashed.
Nobody cares what percentage labor is of the finished vehicle.
Labor is a cost that can be controlled which equates to profit .
Quick example 40k Ford workers paid 8k bonus for 3 years. Plus additional Social Security payment
Lets round it off and imagine that number added to the bottom line
Wait there is more. You have to pay Fords non Union work force big bonus now
IMAGINE JUST THAT ADDED TO THE BOTTOM LINE but wait
If wages were just cut 3.00 and hour x a 40 hour work week time 40 k workers
Ford would be able to be profitable going forward regardless Of course much more to the labor story
BUT OF COURSE LABOR COST DO NOT MATTER JUST ASK MO, FLYING, QUESTIONATER, LOVELIN'
WHY FORD IS OFF SHORING ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I gues they never undertsood labor cost do not matter.
they have been right. I originally called for one last run years ago.
I questioned if the run to 18 was it . And unless some new information /results start coming forward soon I think that was Fords last run. They get one more bye, wait till end of the year July earnings call.
After that by end of year we have the headwinds
UAW contract is going to kill margins
Sales cannot continue at this pace forever, reality Ford does not get that much of the 17 million
Truck , I still do not see how it drives profits through the roof .But it is show time now. 7 months in and near the 2016 model it has cost Ford and estimated 1 billion in profits.
SO WILL THERE BE ONE LAST RUN I THINK POSSIBLY but not what we expected
Ford drops to a point where it is a buy 13s and we run to 16 at some point. Or we bounce off this and go to 16 .
I cannot wait to see Europe that is coming to a cross road if they continue to lose $$$$ there.
I already know the excuses for Russia, South America, China