They are talking about 16nm and 14nm processors from GloFo as next generation A processors. How long is the current generation going to last, until 2020?
Within the next couple of weeks I will be able to break some good news about this stock. If I am not the first to break it I can at least give more insight into the rest of the story that may come out on a brief press release. This is a good time to buy this stock.
Unless the new fab is a true sub-20nm fab on 450mm wafers, it will be far too little too late.
This simply doesn't sound right on the face of the article. Sale have been good for TSMC so now they ave decided to add 16 billion in upgrades assuming that it will be ready fast enough to extend the ride they've caught recently?
I don't know, this sounds more PR in nature than anything.
Interesting that you brought up Windows, CE. As a consumer product it's dead, replaced by Windows Phone. But as an embedded platform it's still around. If you think about the code base they have for ARM with it then it stretches back about twenty years. It would be foolish to think that Intel will make every IoT device processor in the future. This code base makes a lot of sense for IoT. Perhaps there is a Windows 10 CE? I just don't see Microsoft going for another round of pain when it comes to make two versions of full blown PC operating systems for x86 and ARM. Then again, they have been known to do stupid things over and over again.
This is an amazing little device for $35. I thought about buying one last time, this time I probably will. As far as Windows 10 is concerned as you recall there was a "Window 7 Phone." I am thinking that Microsoft will follow through on something that they started with Windows RT. They want developers to write apps (not programs) for Windows. If you write a game for example they want it to work on the phone and computer. The Metro UI will bridge the phone and PC. This time however, I think that instead of having Windows 10 RT they will have Windows 10 for PC and Windows 10 Mobile. The phone interface will be what will work with Raspberry Pi. I know what they wrote sounds vague, but if Microsoft was including ARM in it's full blown PC version of Windows 10 there would have been 100 press releases by now from ARM Holdings instead of a small statement 3/4's of the way down in an article from the BBC about a very small company.
Jerry Sanders was kinda an idiot, but he did have a point. The point of ARM was that the fabs were constantly being run at full capacity so the economies of scale could be passed on to each customer. The problem that they didn't foresee is something they could have learned from PC users. Some of us demand the latest unlocked Core i7 which so we can water cool it and push it to 5GHz while dropping in a $1000 video card. But for each one of these enthusiasts there are 100 people who would be happy with a Core i3 or i5.
Is the world really demanding more high end Smartdragon processors? Are they willing to pay the $700 for the Galaxy Note 3? Or do they want a $200 smartphone with a MediaTek run of the mill SiP? It's amazing what you can get for under $200.
The bad news about the XP upgrade cycle is that we Microsoft has to work against those windfall sales from last year. There are some great talking points if you want to bash Microsoft and Intel. Nenni has figured them all out. But the reality is that Microsoft and Intel have continued to grow over last year despite the windfall sales. In a few days it will all get sorted out but in the meantime enjoy the discount on two great stocks.
RT isn't dead yet. Part of the problem is that they have warehouses full of RT tablets needing to find homes that they are still hoping to sell to suckers, I mean unsuspecting fools. Which makes me wonder, how long before all the rechargeable batteries need to be replaced on the unsold merchandise?
I am thinking right now there are meetings being held at Microsoft where people are swearing that RT is a great product but needs to be re-positioned. What we'll probably see Microsoft re-brand RT as "Windows Phone -Tablet." Which of course makes as much as "Core-2-Duo-Quad."
Microsoft has been pushing ARM devices since Windows CE. It's gone nowhere, but they have a long, rich history of lackluster sales with ARM based products and a belief that someday it will all pay off.
"At a given level of technology, an ARM uses fewer joules per mip and is smaller and that's that. Unless you need to run Windows, why bother?"
Most of us have been on this board for years. We saw these types of posts with this simple logic all the time a few years back. In a perfect world this argument should be all you need.
Within one year you saw 20 to 28% of the tablet market which was ARM fall to Intel. Intel forecasted 40 million tablets but grabbed a bit more. True they lost money on each sale, but with each passing month it was a bit less. Sooner than you think Intel won't have to pay the difference between it and an ARM based SoC/SiP.
What Intel got was credibility. now developers are starting to develop for Intel based devices running ARM (answer to your question "Why bother?" is because Android based Intel devices is where the market is heading).
Something that should keep you up at night was Intel more or less said 40 million tablets last year. It wasn't a goal, it was a limit. They could have picked up even more market share. When Intel can sell it's SoC's for the going rate in the market and turn a profit how much more ARM market share can they grab?
The thing that is nice about the ARM ecosystem is the very thing that will make it hard to fight off Intel. With each ARM partner taking their small part of the market will find it hard to fight off an Intel who is huge and vertically integrated.
I can tell by the way you write that you are an engineer. I am willing to bet you either have an EE degree or have been associated in the field for a very long time. I love how engineers have a cause and effect relationship with design and market share. The best design doesn't always win. They don't.
" if the CPU benchmark scores are legitimate," If you're suspect of the results why should I trust them?
"ARM is talking about $75 phones with LTE this year..."
Is this a business plan or simply a talking point for ARM? To me it sounds like a talking point. Here's what a business plan sounds like.
"Mr. AT&T. Yes you've noticed the recent influx of Chinese made smartphones in the market. Consumers don't know how good they are or where to go if there is a problem. We have sourced these five jobbers in China to make phones. We have sourced the raw materials down to the injection molding with your logo on it and ours a well. You can offer them in these colors and styles. We'll make the injection molds for you. In fact we'll change them for you slightly a few times a year so your customers will have a hard time finding cases online. They will have to buy them from you and you can sell an accessory pack as well to bring in even more margins. We will audit the phones for our own quality control. If one dies within 18 months we'll credit you for a replacement. Consumers can buy the phone with confidence knowing that it will last. Since it's your phone you'll never have to update Android if you choose not to. But if you do want to push out an update it will be your call how you would like to do it. The phone will have the Intel logo on the outside so they can buy with confidence. In the ads for the phone if you mention Intel we will pay for half the ad. "
Will Qualcom, Nvidia, Microtek or any other supplier be so bold? No, they are in bed with A&B tier handset suppliers. Will they help pay for ads?
Oh, the old "Scale and volume" enlargement. We've heard this for years. Intel grabbed 46 million tablets from ARM last year. Market share on phones will be even easier. When the smartphone market goes generic people won't really care what's inside. Thanks for ignoring servers. Who anointed Intel an over 90% marketshare in that space? Certainly not IBM! Taking market share is something Intel has a long history of doing very well.
I thought about your question and here's the best way to answer it. Where ARM blew it happened over a year ago. The iPhone had current technology, but not always the latest technology. That changed in the 5s when it went to 28nm 64 bit. The largest smartphone manufacturer now has the most current processor in their phone. This ensured that other manufactures who also want current technology will be six months to a year behind Apple in the latest nodes. I am seeing a lot of different specs about where Intel 14nm will land against Apple's A8. For argument sake we'll say it's behind, but not far behind in benchmarks.
I believe what you said is correct a year or two ago. Intel will be pushed out of the A and B tier handset manufactures. The C-tier manufactures ( C for Chinese) are going to be private label for for carriers made with a few different SoC's or SiPs from Intel. But Intel will design an array of phones based on a few different SiPs or SoCs. and source everything and pay for the injection molds. ARM will do the same thing as well. Intel of course can help support the carriers with paying for advertising. Carrier specific generic phones featuring Intel Inside.
This is the C-tier handset manufactures eating the market share away from ARM by offering premium cell phone technology at the $200 price point. The fight will be with ARM at 20nm. How will ARM 28nm do against 14nm from Intel? Demand for 28nm and older nodes will die off as orders fall off. This concept is called 'Inferior technology." Intel did it with servers and will do it with phones. It's not top down, it's bottom up market penetration.
ARM isn't dead at 20nm. But they will start to face real competition from Intel starting now going into full pain mode within a year. The fabs that can afford to push 20nm aren't the ones to worry, for now. The backlog will occur at 28nm and older. They will be fighting for fewer and fewer orders over the next year or two. You'll start to see some of them close. As Intel predicted eventually there will be two titans. Intel and ? Samsung? TSMC? Stay tuned.
He's doing what is called a "solid." Some institutions need to buy in on Intel. They got a slight discount. This downgrade will be forgotten in a couple of days.
Every few months somebody buys big into Intel and the stock goes up a little, down a little but basically remains flat. They get frustrated and dump it, but first they need to come on here and vent about what a POS it is and why we're all bag holders.
It's a stock that pays a good dividend, and in the case of those of us who bought in at much lower share prices it pays a fantastic dividend. Looking down the road the stock is poised to do well long term. I think the news today will freak out a few major investors and the stock may sell off over the next. As long as analysts aren't lining up to downgrade the stock it should bounce back and be around $37 and change later on this quarter. IF the market drops this quarter than of course Intel will be affected.
Today I am gong to, as my hip-hop DJ's say "Kick and old school jam." Back in the day (about five years ago) Paul Otellini, then CEO of Intel was in the hot seat. It had become clear that Intel missed the boat in smartphones as sales skyrocketed and the Intel stock remained stationary. At an investors meeting he made an interesting announcement. For every 622 ARM based smart devices sold they needed one additional Intel server. The profitability on the one server was greater than the 622 smartphones. Keep in mind that this was a time before the $59 smartphones at Walmart.
When it comes to mobile devices it's a race to the bottom. ARM has made no secret that they want to expand sales into 3rd world countries. These are very price sensitive markets. With most of the planet living on $10 a day or less this means that price is the limiting factor.
As the mobile craze further reaches into new markets this means more server sales for Intel. The other push for servers is the Internet of Things (IoT). Cameras that come off your wrist and fly away, snap a blurry picture and return may not be in our future. But things like controllers for sprinkler systems that create custom watering routines for grass based on stats gathered by weather forecasts and amount of shade at different times of the year the area receives would be beneficial. Most of the work would be done on the back end my Intel servers. There are many practical examples that are useful but perhaps not as sexy as smart baby monitors and sports watches.
Back in 2008 I wondered what the next era would be all about. Would it be a software driven era or a hardware driven era. I bet on hardware. Looks like it was a good bet.