Where was Yahoo's posting of this RBC news? This is the kind of thing that makes trading this and other stocks much easier, that's if you're willing to suspend belief for a minute (not disbelief in this case). Sorry, Virginia... and all other states too, but there is no Santa Claus.
Now, if you want to talk about suing, this sounds like a legitimate basis for a lawsuit, but isn't it illegal to threaten civil action without following through? Proving it could be costly and take years. If you want to put a stop to this kind of manipulation I recommend you drop a note to the new head of the SEC, Mary Jo White.
Nothing. I'm a trader, not an investor, although I certainly can see the intrinsic value in TC. Traders don't get shaken out. We keep one foot out at all times, and we are always looking for reasons to exit completely ASAP because we learned the hard way not to place any trust in the Cramer and Macke mythologists or the market.
LOM? I assume you meant life of mine, not lower of cost or market, Dragon. I agree with you that this is a great investment for the mining company and the execs drawing those big fat paychecks. For shareholders it's a gamble. It's illustrated in spades with this drawdown, and an unfortunate turn of events for most of the posters here, but hey, tomorrow's another day. Who knows what it will bring?
Exactly. Totally agree. The only opportunity here belongs to the fleet of foot. Anyone not prepared to trade this should be in mutual funds. This isn't a stock for Pollyannas.
6.5 million sh traded yesterday and already over 2 million today. Margin players are systematically being eradicated. When they're wiped out the feeding frenzy will stop.
TC will easily pay it off, or they can always go back to RLGD (or SLW who has 23 streaming agreements in effect worldwide, the majority of them for 100%!!) and just live on the cu production with no debt. This stock right now is like finding gold in the street.
Excellent TA. Nice to find a thread based on something other than CNBpseudonews. I differ only in that I try to look out past the daily machinations, and not only base trades on fibs and candles, but futures too (especially futures) and HFT tells. It's tough relying on minute by minute signals when the big block trades are spread across a dozen exchanges by trading desks on a mission, with a set goal (delivering or selling 2 or 3 million #$%$ a promised price over the course of weeks). The danger lies with the GSCOs and others that can attack an entire sector like they have today in the metals futures. It skews the TA, and they know it.
Israel controls our govt through our bankers, our media, our politicians and AIPAC. I think the recent govt shutdown led by Boehner and Cantor was payback - Netanyahu's way of letting Obama know who's really in charge of US govt after he was rebuffed by Obama during his last visit, and I think this agreement with Iran was payback to Netanyahu. Obama was naive in his first term when he appointed Rohm Emanuel Chief of Staff over the heads of our US military after Emanuel refused to serve in the US Armed Forces; Emanuel had chosen instead to peel potatoes for a year in the Israeli army. Fortunately Obama wised up and replaced him after two years. How many holding political office in our govt are dual citizens of Israel? In order to become a naturalized citizen here, a candidate for citizenship must disavow allegiance to any foreign government. Our kids are dying on foreign soil for Israeli interests. Meanwhile we subsidize their black hatted orthodox religious extremists who refuse to work, and live on the dole. They spend each day praying at the wall or flying back and forth from NYC, and trading in diamonds. Tell me, what's wrong with this picture?
Man(ning) up, bro. Brady rules. Just kidding, not really. Both teams and both QBs deserved winning it last night. That was about as even a game as I can remember, and went down to being decided over a freak ending, the last bounce of the ball. Let's hope they get to duke it out again in the playoffs. When it's all said and done it's just a game, but Brady does get to go home to Giselle.
Who's Larry? I have some accting credentials. An old g/f who was a VP for Arthur D. Little would have laughed in my face for saying that, but never the less, I can make it even simpler for you.
What are all of TC's properties worth, including the MM mill and the Langforth smelter minus the outstanding debt, future capex and future interest and tax expenses? Count the projected recoverable metals in all plays at present value and less than half the recoverable gold.
There is no earthly way to accurately project this number. Everything is always in a constant state of flux (metals prices, economies, accessibility, competition, scarcity and need, fiat, manipulation, inflation) and everything is an estimate based on future guesstimates, so stop, you'll drive yourself crazy trying to calculate this. In a one-handed guesstimate, the figure lies somewhere between 7and 11 billion minus a billion in debt and 1 to 2 billion in expenses, divided by 225 million shares, which BTW only has any real value if and when the company is sold or the BOD agrees to start paying dividends. Outside of that, shares are only worth what the Wall Street HFT algorithms and the international pressures on the prices of metals dictate at the time.
IMO the company's worth around twenty dollars a share. That said I sold all of my holdings Friday and plan on buying back after the holiday. Go figure. The MM property is where the brunt of this illusive wealth is situated. Contrary to what others would believe the mill is worth 2 billion all by itself. The government will pay back the capex spent on it in tax deductions so it's a gift from Royal Gold for a share of the gold, and that's more than a fair trade.
According to the 8-K filed in August he was given options only to buy 400K shares of common and 300K shares of restricted stock, vesting annually over three years. He got no stock, but did get a signing bonus of 200K in cash and will receive an additional annual cash bonus of at least 90% of his base of 550,000.00. There are other incentives if the company changes hands - in the event that occurs he's paid double his salary and double his bonuses..So, no, I doubt he much cares about the stock price right now.
Gold and silver are way undervalued based on the cost to produce. The Central Banks, desperate to prop up the dollar, recently got caught in a futures contracts brouhaha. They are responsible for keeping prec metals, the natural haven from inflation, from seeking their proper levels, so I think you're spot on with focusing on copper.
TC has had a history of continuing production and sequestering moly product until prices improve. IMO it was one of the catalysts which drove the company's stock price to 15 dollars at one time. They wisely went with their own smelter and it also became another income stream and a draw for wildcatter ore. If it costs them over a million dollars to smelt eleven days of cu concentrate production then I'm betting they are already working on their own smelter. They've always been very stingy about burning off hard won resources unnecessarily. Thanks to their brilliant move of joining forces with Royal Gold they don't need any of the income from the sales of precious metals to cover current debt expense, and now have diverse multiple income streams. It wouldn't surprise me if they bank a good percentage of their precious metals production next year once they have a handle on operating expenses. Enter Perron, the master of hiding PM income. Everyone was sad to see him go at St Andrew, everyone except the stockholders that is. Buckle up. This is going to be one long roller coaster ride.
Desperate for facts, opponents in a debate revert to ad hominem attacks and sarcasm.
To the fellow who challenged me to time the market in TC for him for the next three years, wow, what are you 12 yrs old? Be a man and do your own trading. Matter of fact, do something, do anything other than sitting around wringing your hands.
Now that was awfully rude, wasn't it? That's why I would never say that. Neither one of us would learn anything from that exchange other than to avoid a future confrontation without coming into it prepared for battle.
I've never claimed to always be right. I'm wrong a lot and content to be right once in a while... and it's impossible to time something we have no control over. I posted a couple of my moves here ahead of time, before getting out or back in, but they had nothing to do with showing I was more right to trade than any of you who had stayed. It was to illustrate another way of looking at things, a different perspective. I love this company. The only difference between us is that I work very hard to keep my emotions out of my decision making. What is obvious to me is that Wall Street works just as hard to keep us invested emotionally and distracting us from seeing the entire picture while they reach into our pockets and steal our wallets.
BTW, Ultra, outstanding analysis on SA. I tried giving you the thumbs up but SA wouldn't let me. I guess calling one of the posters a member of the Three Stooges is frowned upon.
Here's the rub tmg. I ask in all sincerity, when exactly do you sell? When you're up 100%? 300%? Down 50%? Never, I think. Have you come up with a new way of turning a profit without selling? If you can't exit when it's obvious you should be, then at least have some kind of program in place to mitigate losses, like selling options is all I'm saying.
I don't understand why people fall in love with stocks. Somewhere in the time spent researching our next play I guess we develop this sense of fealty we feel the company is owed. The company and mgmt couldn't care less about us. We should be thrilled when opportunities to make moves present themselves. I don't time the market. I play stocks in pairs. I'm always in one equity or another. When the one I'm in goes up ten percent more than the other I sell it and buy the other one. My only goal is acquiring more shares. I stay in stocks I like for their fundamentals. I leave the home runs to you all, and I wish you the best.
Just to be clear, that's down 15K on the original 20,000 shares, but even in total dollars invested because you'd be up 15K on the next 10K in shares.
Indeed??? That's brilliant. You're a smart guy. I expected more from you than that, Ultra. I call not trading weak, and an excuse based on pure rationalization.
Nasdaq, if you held 20K shares from last winter so far your "strategy" has cost you 30,000 dollars. If you'd just sold twice throughout the course of the year and bought back in, you'd have 30,000 shares right now instead of your original 20,000. Yes, you'd still be down 15K but you would have accumulated 10K more shares at a net cost of 1.50/share. If you'd traded several times you'd have even more shares right now. Call me stupid and proud of it.
These phony negative investor comments in this thread that suddenly appeared along with those planted media stories on Yahoo and MF and CNBC - how do these "journalists" have such perfect market timing in sync with, and before the markets are even open? Amazing. Together they are perfect examples of share price manipulation.
As the PPS falls, SOMEBODY was on the other side of that trade buying up millions of shares. If you are one of those who believes that holding is better than selling in a down market, which it is not, then please, stay out of margined positions. It could be weeks for the bounce, but come back it will. SOMEBODY purchased those millions of shares, and along with yours they too are now underwater. Do you really think that was by accident?
Okay, you've made your choice, now live with it and stop trying to rationalize why "analysts" can't see the company is making a ton of money. They tell us it's because they are looking out for our interests by telling us what they think worst case scenarios could be. Meanwhile their associates are telling us to buy shares in bankrupt companies based on best case scenarios. The real contributors are the regular posters like ultra and dragon and phog who follow this company every day. They are the true analysts. I trust them implicitly, but I trade based on the manipulation. It's self-preservation.
Holding is a valid method to make money, just not as good as selling and buying back in and securing more shares at a lower price. Just remember when we choose to stay we have to be prepared to sit and watch the grass grow. Make sure that you along with your personal financial needs have the fortitude to wait it out.
I'm one who's made these same mistakes and learned the hard way. I'm tired of waiting for honest and ethical leaders of either party to step out into the light and make this right. I've decided it ain't gonna happen. There aren't any left with enough influence to rally their colleagues to action.
That's a fair analysis, Phog. Perron had a history at St. Andrew. Yours is similar to my earlier take on him when I checked out his previous company's performance. I was concerned about the BOD's choice but I figured they had to know what they were getting. (STADF). I'm not the best judge of CEOs so I'll take him at his word and wait and see next Q. I think they could have installed Steve Jobs and the boys in NYC still would have done a tap dance on the stock.
I agree. It's all part of holding the price down while deeper pockets load up at cheaper prices. Thanks to pairs trading my position is up significantly, though I may have to bail again if this goes south any more.
Regarding that blurb about contractual sales to the smelter; what's your take on that, ultra? Were they saying their future production has already been accounted for contractually for the next two years? I'm trying to reconcile this with the Marimar stock purchases.
Employing a WMD like margin always was like playing Russian Roulette. It's James Bond - the ultimate gamble. What no one has dared to say about it though is that it's a sucker's bet, and coupled with HFT makes it that much easier for WS to fleece the public and impose their will.
Shapiro knew this. It took her two years to approve HFT. She had to wait until the protesters got tired of getting no support in the media and went away just like the OWS crowd who followed. The public knew there was nothing good about HFT, but the public won't accept that Wall Street controls it. It's hard for me to believe but people still think Wall Street is legitimate. It's those trustworthy Smith Barney style ads.
I don't think even Wall Street fully understood how powerful HFT could be. They of course understood perfectly what it was for but did not conceive of a cascading catastrophic crash occurring on a normal trading morning, initiated by some outsider. It didn't take them long to find out, ie the Flash Crash, which went through all margin plays like Sherman through Atlanta. The immediate red flags that went up at the SEC weren't about HFT, they were about rushing to limit the exposure to the securities dealers' shenanigans.
So what did they do? They instituted an unwritten rule - the daily 1-2% up, 2-4% down rule with a few exceptions.Twenty years ago individual stocks used to swing like a stop sign in a hurricane; we don't see that any more (although the wind has shifted as of late). Now before mass exoduses the dealers prime the public with months of warnings and mimes, like "the market's way overbought." They know average Joe investor will do what the herd has always done when the market takes a Dixie and heads south - nothing. He'll hold and wait out the storm as he's been told to do by people he trusts and thinks are smarter or more knowledgeable than him.