Not soon, but yea, they'll get delisted if they keep the NYSE in the dark as much as we are.
Also, tomorrow is the deadline for FAB filing a plan to come into compliance, not to file their 10K.
It makes zero sense to me they would not file a plan. If they were going completely dark they wouldn't have bothered to file the SEC doc notifying shareholders of the letter in the first place. They also wouldn't have hired Loeb & Loeb.
But don't expect much for details in the plan, other than the fact they plan to file their 10K ASAP once the investigation is complete.
" Well... maybe a SLIGHT bit. He appears to have documented piracy adequately and since the company did not deny piracy; rather, said they would look at internal controls... it make it more likely piracy was rampant."
The piracy was once again part of the Carnes Scam. Who takes a sample of 1 or 2 Kiosks on one location and uses that to determine all 16K have a problem? Someone with an agenda, that's who. It was part of the Carnes Scam you fell for.
"Who pays tens of millions of dollars upfront because you MAY open a store or MAY purchase a building? They have every opportunity to explain themselves, but it sure doesn't smell right on the face appearances."
Ah, someone who wants to hold the building while they complete their DD? Would you rather Zhang just arbitrarily signed off on buying the building without consulting the BOD? This is just one more example of you twisting facts to suit your agenda.
As for where the cash is now, since the FAB is clearly in the black out mode for PR's I have no idea. I suspect they either got their cash or are close to getting it. Once the investigation is complete I believe they'll be a deluge of PR's concerning the company's operations of the last 4 months.
Here we go again....back on track with the Carnes Scam.
How many times have you denied falling for the Carnes Scam, then post your belief in the details of the Scam immediately after?
Now we have you quoting the chick with the business card story nearly verbatim, after denying you fell for that story about a hundred times.
"If you want to get right down to it, those who purchase the licenses are really purchasing an equity interest in FAB if you look at the buyback provisions. That's right... the buyback provisions are only in the marketing materials and not in the actual license agreement so the "franchisees" got scammed, too."
Before the halt FAB was growing at around 15% sequentially, I wonder if that's going to accelerate if they move capital from the retail side to the digital side? It will be interesting to see how this plays out once trading begins again if the growth rate is similar or even accelerates.
This is what is so frustrating with your stupidity. First you post a question, proceed to paste the answer, then misinterpret what you just pasted.
First you ask this question:
"What is a "client-provided kiosk"? Clients don't provide kiosks in the FAB business model:"
Then you paste this answer:
"1.The licensee pays for FAB Kiosk and other equipment and fixtures....."
Then you reach this stupid conclusion:
"Clients pay for a license and then everything is up to FAB. "
Dah, the client is the licensee. They pay for the Kiosk....at least from 2012 going forward.
One of the reasons I thought FAB wanted the extra cash, and took the bond money when IMO they really didn't have to, is they plan on starting to own the Kiosks (in the last PR they pulled out of the new building to move more capital toward the digital side....kiosks). The reason why they started the licensee program in the first place (really just a profit sharing plan) is they needed the cash to expand rapidly.
The last four quarters FAB posted revenue of 23M.....25....29. Pretty clear they are headed in the right direction but if they had the money to buy those Kiosks clearly they could expand at an even fast rate (and if the end goal is around 300K they have a long way to go from 16K that are out there now).
Nice find. This is what message boards are about. Not posting misinformation along with slanted opinions, but real news not easily accessible by most (especially during a self imposed quiet period by FAB). Based upon that recent article I'd say the odds of a legitimate Kiosk count just increased (and shows just how ridiculous the Carnes Scam regarding the chick with the business card that LBCB fell for is).
"I posted the PROOF and not an opinion on when the preferred share tranches expired. You claim to have publicly-available information to refute the filing I referenced, but you can't/won't show it."
If the conversion date expired at the end of Q3, and not exercised, then why does Q3 10Q still have the same language giving Zhang the RIGHT to convert? The 10Q goes up until midnight of the last day of the quarter. At that point they would know whether Zhang converted or not.
This is really a stupid argument for a short to make. What you are implying is the share count just got cut in half, making your short an even more dangerous proposition when FAB opens. You do realize this, right?
"If the kiosks aren't confirmed... the revenue was a lie. Pretty simple."
My thinking is if the cash isn't confirmed the revenue is a lie. But fine, run with your logic (FAB did say the cash was verified).
What we know is the Carnes Scam (that you fell for hook, line and sinker) placed the Kiosk count between 100 and 500 in Beijing.
As of FAB's last PR, given out after the share price was halted, FAB verified that all 4K of the Kiosks licensed in Beijing were in fact "deployed"....contrary to the Carnes story about the chick with the business card.
FAB also stated they had reviewed 75% of the licenses and none had the guarantees that Carnes chick with the business card story implied.
At that point FAB shut down the PR's, but simple logic tells us if they made that kind of progress within weeks they probably finished their own personal investigation months ago (and probably before hiring the 3rd party). If that's the case it's pretty ridiculous to think FAB would invite an investigation knowing it would prove them a fraud.
My personal opinion is sticking to the Carnes Scam story of the chick with the business card (aka the Kiosk count by FAB is way overinflated) is a poor strategy by a short. I'd start working on a back up plan if I was you.
"LOL! I would bet you I have posted out of the blue less than half a dozen times on this board. My posts are to counter lies and misinformation."
Are you nuts? You're the king of misinformation. You posted like 800 times about the dangers of VIE's in China and acted like FAB originated the concept to steal shareholders money. Then you posted another 800 times rehashing the Carnes Scam (that you fell for hook, line and sinker). Now you're on this share count kick for a week that's ridiculous. So spare me #$%$ about you're just here to COUNTER misinformation and lies. The truth is you're short, scared and want to cover ASAP.
" We didn't even have confirmation of the bond offering when trading was halted. That, alone, is good for another nice drop. " '
We also didn't know Zhang gave up the money from the bond and cash was verified on the US side.
But all that will be old news before FAB starts trading again. The big news will be the investigation and earnings (probably six months worth). That will overshadow any 6 month old news.....and you know this as well as I do.
I'm hoping for a positive outcome on the investigation and 30M plus in revenues both quarters. I think if that comes to pass and they announce a one dollar a share dividend right before it opens to reward shareholders for the putting up with the halt the share price will at least double from current prices.
I haven't searched that hard to find one but I"m certain it exists. If it didn't FAB would pull down the explanation on their web site of how the conversion affects the share count.
LBCB will cover as soon as FAB opens, whatever the price. He knows time is not on the short's side. It's why he posts so often even though the share price is halted.
"You are completely misleading people on the truth. Who took out the bond?"
I get FAB threw themselves on the sword for the sake of simplicity....but why is zero percent of the collateral related to FAB and 100% related to Zhang if he wasn't the one that took out the bond?
Of course it follows the money ended up in his account...it was his loan.
Suppose this went down the other way, and FAB came out and stated the bond was all Zhang's doing and he was personally liable for it and not FAB?
I don't know exactly how this played out (FAB getting stuck with the bond), but it seems to me Zhang owes FAB a bid favor (and I bet Spencer and Rogers see it like that, too).
This is what FAB"s 10Q states about the 16M bond:
"The bonds are secured by a pledge of shares in a company that does business with the Company, a certain real estate asset owned by a third party and are guaranteed by the Company’s Chairman. "
This sure sounds to me like a personal loan to Zhang. No collateral owed by FAB, just by Zhang.
It's clear FAB bought off on the expenses of the bond to simplify things, but they sure could make a case that it was Zhang and not them that took out the bond. This is also the reason why Spencer denied the bond in the beginning. ...and for good reason if you read the collateral list.
I suspect that is one of the reasons the NYSE did not delist them. They probably got the whole story while we are still partially in the dark.
"Show me your proof of this. I showed an official filing with the SEC to back up what I said. where is your proof to refute an official SEC filing?"
The problem is you always look at one document, misinterpret it, then proceed to incorrectly apply it to suit your whims.
Read the four 10Q's or the 10K filed by FAB since the acquisition. All have the share count at around 20 Million....proving the shares have NOT been converted.
Then read where it states the designee has the RIGHT to convert the shares (meaning Zhang still has the RIGHT to convert or it wouldn't be in an SEC doc).
I dug up the language, but yahoo deleted it for some reason and I'm not going to dig it up again....but it's there. An official SEC doc stating you're wrong.
As for whether the BOD could stop the conversion without Zhang's approval....not a chance in heck.
What I"m pushing for is a one dollar a share dividend at the 20M share count. That would tighten the screws on the shorts while at the same time rewarding the longs who've been stuck here. That may cost you a few bucks, but since you keep yapping about shareholder rights for the greater good you ought to be for it.
Nice find. What' I've always stated is although FAB's shares are halted the company is still moving forward. The halt is having no negative effects on the their business that I know of. I would expect a slew of positive news to follow the release of the investigation and the 10K.
When LBCB cites FAB's reluctance to announce the locations of the 16K Kiosks as proof they're fraud, I just see it as one more PR they're holding in the bag.
"No comment about my premise that those who shorted based on knowledge of the bond did so illegally with nonpublic material information and should have their trading profits disgorged by the SEC?"
First off, it was public knowledge if you knew where to look. Second, why would you want to discourage investors from digging beyond what is readily available? If I wanted to take the time to do my own survey's or pay for my own investigations in China then I should be rewarded for my time and effort.
I just don't see trading on the bond news as illegal or unethical. According to Goinvesting, they got a tip from China and followed it up. Fair game the way I see it. FAB/Zhang should not have been so stupid as to put FAB in that situation in the first place (I never condoned his actions but also don't think it's an indicator of a larger fraud), which really invited the shorts to come down hard.
" Spencer sold in September and the reports and initial denial were in November. Don't want to make it seem like the reports came out and Spencer sold. He sold prior to the published reports, but I would still like to know what he knew and when he knew it to sell as shorting began."
Spencer addressed his sale during the last C.C. Remember he was paid around 200K for a decade (pretty small for a CEO) and now had a chance to pocket a million dollars. Seemed like a reasonable thing to do, considering he still kept half and will probably get additional options going forward if FAB is successful.
As for what he knew, I'm surprised you missed this angle (well, maybe not...you are an idiot after all), but there is certainly one thing we do know Spencer was aware of BEFORE he sold (at least in my mind to a 90% certainty).
Carnes has a reputation as a notorious and brutal short seller. Guess who Carnes spoke to on the phone BEFORE Spencer sold his shares? Yea, Spencer.
Now we don't know the exact date of the phone call, but Spencer sold on 9/25 and Carnes did not release his hit piece until two weeks later. While I don't know for sure, I'm going to guess it took Carnes more than 2 weeks to put his hit piece together...meaning when Spencer sold he knew Carnes was about to release a report.
I'm not going to lay all this out as fact, but I think when the major issues are resolved Spencer needs to explain the timeline of his sale reference the phone call from Carnes.
"Too many things look real bad here and without a clear explanation it is inexcusable for the NYSE to allow this to remain listed and to allow shareholder money to be kept hostage."
Oh, the outrage! Of course that's the wish of the 3 million shorts that need to cover ASAP when FAB begins trading again. Everyone and their cousin knows there will be a huge difference in price if FAB opens on the pink sheets vs the NYSE. If I was short and scared I would be pushing the same agenda....but probably not lying through my teeth about my motives. What's wrong with just saying...I'm short and want FAB to be delisted and trade on the pink sheets because it will mean a large profit for me? Using the...I'm just here to inform and protect shareholders....is getting old in addition to being a bold face lie.
Look, you got greedy and now are trapped in a trade, for better or worse. Deal with it. Lying through your teeth and making one idiotic statement after another is not helping your cause. Just because FAB took my suggestion to STOP PUSHING THE NYSE TO REMOVE THE HALT does not mean they'll bite on the 1 dollar a share dividend. Maybe you'll get lucky and they'll pass on that one.
I think you are confusing "delisting" with "delisting proceedings".
In order to maintain its listing, the Company must submit a plan of compliance by April 17, 2014 (the “Plan”), addressing how it intends to regain compliance with Sections 134 and 1101 of the Company Guide by July 1, 2014 (the “Plan Period”). The staff of the Issuer Oversight Department of NYSE Regulation will evaluate the Plan and make a determination as to whether the Company has demonstrated an ability to regain compliance with the applicable continued listing standards within the specified timeframe. If the plan, as submitted, is not accepted, FAB Universal Corp will be subject to DELISTING PROCEEDINGS.
"If it was halted for news pending, don't they have to disclose everything they know BEFORE it re-opens?"
It's pretty clear at this point the NYSE forced the initial halt on FAB. What is not clear is if FAB wants this to resume trading ASAP or until after the investigation is complete. I'm guessing they changed their initial opinion (open ASAP) and went with my idea (stay halted until the investigation is over).
It's also clear the NYSE has no interest in delisting FAB as long as they continue to keep them updated on the progress of the investigation. The fact FAB is still listed is proof of this.
At the moment FAB does not HAVE to make any announcements. In fact they can go dark, be delisted, and never trade again on any exchange. Which is exactly the bet the shorts made when they were shorting FAB all the way down to cash value.
My thinking is it won't play out like that. My belief is FAB will announce in the next month or so the results of the investigation. Within days of that announcement they'll file their 10K. The next day or so it will resume trading with more positive announcements (I'm pushing for a 1 dollar a share special dividend myself....VERY painful to the shorts who would have to cough up 3M if they want to stay short).
BTW, our resident idiot short also believes FAB will stay listed and the 3rd party investigation will turn out positive. If he didn't why would he post negatives night and day? His plan is the same as all the other shorts...cover ASAP and move on.
Apple....IBC is just as concerned about his 20 grand as you are about yours. The problem is if you are long you can lose 100% of your money on a bad investment. If you are short your potential lose is unlimited....meaning if FAB goes to zero you lose 20G, but if FAB goes to 9 he's down 60G.
When our local idiot posts cash, book value and earnings of FAB are immaterial to the share price it's not because he believes that, it's because he wants you to believe that. He posts the same garbage over and over again because he wants you to sell when FAB starts trading again so he can cover.
If the 3rh party investigation comes out clean all that will matter is earnings.
Trading at 3 dollars a share is a ridiculous number for FAB, if it's legit (trading at ash value, P/E of zero, 40% growth rate). The only reason it traded this low is because the shorts piled on after they discovered the bond (short interest up from 200K to 3M) believing it was proof FAB was a total fraud. If they are wrong trust me they will cover and move one. That's what traders do when the reason for the trade no longer exists.
Clearly at this point FAB is keeping quiet, waiting for it to begin trading before releasing positive news to shareholders. Why else would they not announce the grand reopening of their new shore or the newly designed Kiosks, or even the restatements or the hiring of Loeb?
Just be patient, wait for the investigation to play out, and try to tune out LBC's ramblings.
"Came out and admitted after PROFUSELY denying it existed. You still don't get it... it isn't about the bond. It is about such a complete lack of internal controls that US management was left clueless not knowing what was happening in China."
You're an idiot.
There are only two types that would hold their short or continue to short FAB down to their cash value and a zero P/E.
Those that believed the bond proved FAB was a fraud (99%) and those that fell for the Carnes Scam (you).
Weak internal controls may get you a few percentage points, but if I'm going to short a growing company below it's cash value I need a much stronger case then they have weak internal controls.
You might as well state the VIE structure was the cause of the drop or all Chinese companies fake their cash....part of the Carnes Scam you fell for.
Bottom line....if you think FAB is going to continue to trade below cash value while generating 20M a year and growing at 40% because investors are fearful of their internal controls you're an idiot. You're also an idiot if you think those 3M shares short won't cover ASAP if FAB"s audit comes out clean. They all bet (well, everyone but those that fell for the Carnes Scam) the bond proved FAB was a fraud. Rule number one of investing (short or long) is to exit the position after the reason for owning/shorting is gone.