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PetroLogistics LP Message Board

jrad52 141 posts  |  Last Activity: 3 hours ago Member since: Jul 25, 1999
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  • ARLP and its execs have just started filing Forms 4 with the SEC to record the restricted units that have been granted this year. They vest in 3 years if the exec is still with the company.

    Basically, ARLP has tripled the number of restricted units it has granted to each employee. Unscientific survey - I checked the first 6 forms filed and compared them to last year. The interested part is that it seems the employees have not left. Pretty much the same people that got grants last year also received them this year.

    So Mr Cantrell, CFO, last year was granted 13,424 restricted units. On the date of the grant, ARLP closed at $ 37.19, so ARLP thought it was paying him $ 500,000 (plus distributions). This year, he received a grant of 39,300 restricted units. On the date of the grant, ARLP closed at $ 14.03 so the total value of the grant was $ 550,000, plus distributions. Same for other guys I happened to see.

    Nothing to invest on. Just news about our company.

  • ARLP went ex last week but AHGP went ex today. That accounts for about half od AHGP's drop today.

  • Reply to


    by neverinvested Feb 9, 2016 3:50 PM

    I replied several hours ago but it seems my post has been deleted. ARLP's K-1 is estimated to be available on Feb 22 at K-1 support. You won't get it thru your broker.

  • Reply to

    Earnings out

    by jrad52 Feb 9, 2016 5:35 PM

    Things at TV have apparently gotten worse since the 10-K was filed 2 months ago.

    BRT has changed the disclosure a little. Maybe significant, maybe not.

    In the 10-K, BRT said the Newark JV was discussing with a lender the possible repayment of the $ 19.5 MM owed to BRT. Now they add the words “repayment over time”. So no immediate likelihood of getting the cash.

    The minimum amount projected to finish the NJV has risen $ 1 MM since the 10-K.

    In the 10-K, BRT said that the NJV needed $ 2.7 MM - $ 6.7 MM over the next 9 months that would require additional debt or equity contributions from the partners. Now the amount needed over the next 9 months has risen to between $ 6.5 MM and $ 9.5 MM, still to be raised by debt or equity contributions.

    So in 2 months, things in Newark have gotten worse.

    As you said, FFO and Adjusted FFO is improving, but BRT is still such a tiny operator that I'm not that interested. They need to do a big deal - preferably exit the NJV profitably.

    I didn't see an income statement for the Newark JV in the 10-Q, but they included one in the 10-K and the Newark JV produces a loss at the FFO and net income level. FFO was running at a loss of about $ 1 MM per quarter, before minority interests. If that is still true, getting out of the JV would really boost FFO.

  • and no comment at all about Newark.

    Maybe in the 10-Q, but since they raised the issue last Q, they should have given an update. I assume this means that not only did they not close Newark within Q1, they also haven't gotten close yet.

  • Reply to

    Reporting date

    by ayscuew Feb 9, 2016 10:29 AM
    jrad52 jrad52 Feb 9, 2016 3:43 PM Flag

    Could be. The last 2 years, the release was on Feb 12, and the 2 years before that the date was Feb 13 and Feb 14. So the 11th sounds a little early. I thought this year's release would be a day or 2 later than last year to give the accountants more time to vet the books since 2015 was a pretty complicated year. But maybe it's tomorrow.

  • Reply to

    A benefit of the deal

    by jrad52 Feb 8, 2016 7:55 PM
    jrad52 jrad52 Feb 9, 2016 1:22 PM Flag

    At today's WNR price, the value of the deal to NTI unit holders is $ 23.09 plus the 38 cent distribution. So NTI is trading slightly above the offer.

    Just about all the refiners are being punished today, and I suspect WNR is being punished for the debt it will take on in the NTI deal. I wouldn't be surprised to see WNR try to renegotiate the price based on "changed market circumstances". I don't trust them.

    And even if NTI's price were to tank temporarily, I'd still be in favor of letting the deal die. I think NTI can generate an average annual distribution of at least $ 3 per unit, and that would be worth more to me than the value of the offer.


  • I have no skin in this game any more, but something occurred to me today. There are 4 refinery MLPs - ALDW, CLMT, CVRR and NTI.

    NTI's first deal was announced before the open on Oct 25. Since that open, NTI is up 1.8%, including the distribution that was paid after Oct 25. Over the same period, ALDW is down 26.4%, CLMT is down 41%, and CVRR is down 26.6%. All of those returns include the distributions that were paid during Q4.

    NTI's adjusted deal was announced on Dec 22; I don't remember the time of day the announcement was made. But since Dec 22, NTI is down 8.5%, ALDW is down 26.7%. CLMT is down 25.9% and CVRR is down 25.7%. Only CLMT and NTI have announced the upcoming distribution - CLMT held it flat (they always try to maintain a steady distribution) and NTI obviously slashed its distribution. ALDW and CVRR are expected to cut their distributions.

    So the 1 benefit of the WNR deal is the $ 15 cash piece of the offer, which has helped to establish a floor for NTI unit price in the current MLP massacre. Without the offer, I suspect we'd be looking at a price in the high teens.

    Of course, there's always time for WNR to lower the offer and for NTI's independent directors to recommend that offer as well. I don't know if WNR has signed the financing for the $ 1.4 billion cash portion of the offer.

  • Reply to


    by jrad52 Feb 6, 2016 7:46 PM
    jrad52 jrad52 Feb 7, 2016 11:17 AM Flag

    Wow, I didn't think anyone followed BRT on this board.

    I think the loan from Gould was clearly predicated on a sale of Teachers Village since the due date accelerates if the sale happens before May.

    As to the dividend, I don't own enough BRT to care about getting a few dollars. But BRT is a really tiny company to start with and doesn't get much coverage. Actually it doesn't get any coverage that I'm aware of. Throw in the fact that it hasn't paid a dividend in years and I don't know who would want to invest money to follow the company.

    Hopefully we'll see/hear more this week.

  • I have posted that I track the [price of regular gas at the SuperAmerica station in Minnetonka. Today it dropped to $ 1.49 per gallon. Excluding Federal and MN taxes, that's $ 1.02 per gallon to the station. That is almost 30% less than the station charged for regular on December 31.

    I realize it's only 1 station, and it's only regular (no one on gas buddy is reporting the price of mid grade or premium). Also, there are 4 other stations in Minnetonka charging $ 1.49 for regular so maybe this is only a temporary price war.

    I sold my NTI a few weeks ago so my interest is pretty academic right now. But I'm not expecting much good news in the earnings release. Maybe intentional, maybe not. But I don't think the people who are against the deal are going to get much ammunition from the call. Good luck, though.

  • jrad52 by jrad52 Feb 6, 2016 7:46 PM Flag

    Should be out early this week, based on the last few years' release dates.

    It was disappointing to read of the new multi-family properties being purchased. Not because I have anything against those properties, but because BRT didn't announce anything about the sale of Newark Teachers Village. I assume that the announcement about the purchases and silence on Teachers Village means they didn't work out a deal to sell, which I was hoping for and which is why I purchased a few shares of BRT recently.

    But they will have to say something when they release, I guess, so maybe there has been progress. Becoming self-managed is good but a REIT that hasn't paid a dividend in years is a dead end. I was hoping that the sale of TV would eat up some of BRT's $ 65 MM NOL carryover and get them a tiny bit closer to paying a dividend.

    But at $ 5.70, I can't complain yet.. We'll have to wait and see what they say.

  • Reply to

    $26.06 is not a guaranteed minimum price?

    by rt_invest Dec 22, 2015 12:01 PM
    jrad52 jrad52 Feb 3, 2016 9:07 PM Flag

    You're right. In total, WNR is going to pay $ 15 plus the .2986 of a WNR share times the number of NTI units outstanding. The mix of consideration that each individual NTI unit holder gets may vary, but not by much. Suppose NTI has 100 MM units outstanding, including employee restricted units (the actual number is a bit less, but 100 MM is a nice round number). In total WNR is going to pay $ 1.5 billion in cash plus 29,860,000 WNR shares to do the deal. If WNR's stock price tanks, any NTI unit holder with a brain will elect to get cash. But that will exceed the $ 1.5 billion of total cash that WNR agreed to pay, so proration kicks in. Conversely, assume WNR's stock skyrockets to $ 60. Then every NTI unit holder will ask for all stock. Again, this will exceed the maximum that WNR agreed to pay, so proration kicks in.

    It is likely that the choice between stock and cash won't be as dramatic as those 2 extremes. So maybe some NTI unitholders will get slightly more than others because of their election. But in total, the maximums will apply.


  • Reply to

    Refining profits

    by jrad52 Feb 3, 2016 8:39 PM
    jrad52 jrad52 Feb 3, 2016 8:56 PM Flag

    To finish, 1 more piece of bad news. I think the lower-of-cost-or-market charge that NTI will report for Q4 will be in the neighborhood of $ 40 - $ 50 million. I was actually surprised NTI did not hold back more for working capital reserves. Maybe the charge won't be as big as I think.

    Anyway, Q4 was bad. But it is only 1 Q, and the drop in the crack spread was known at the time WNR made its offer and the "independent" board members approved it. They gave some disclosure as to why they approved the deal. I haven't read the entire thing because I sold my NTI once I saw the modified offer and thought it was garbage, but that it would go thru anyway.

    Anyway, just 3 things that struck me in what they disclosed. First, they projected out NTI's distributions from 2016 thru 2020, and basically they averaged $ 3 per year, whether they used management's prices or historical prices. 2016 was the low year (some shutdown time, I think), but the average was $ 3 per year or so.
    I would be happy with $ 3 per year in distributions as opposed to the WNR offer. (BTW, no one can project 5 years of a refinery's operations with any accuracy, I realize that.) Which leads me to point 2.

    2. I didn't see anywhere in what they released that they considered simply not doing any deal. All of the work was done to determine if WNR's offer was "fair"; I didn't see any work at all on the question of whether not doing any deal was the best course of action or not. That failure bothers me.

    and 3, something that I have posted before. Q4 is traditionally a weaker Q for refineries - gasoline usage drops with the bad weather (especially in MN) and prices tend to drop along with demand. So WNR timed its offer carefully - it did nothing during the blow-out quarters of Q2 and Q3, but as soon as Q4 started, it made its offer. At that time, it knew Q4 would be nothing to write home about and I think Q1 will be similar. So WNR took advantage. I think this will happen with more MLPs soon.

  • I posted this earlier today but my post disappeared. So from memory -

    MPC reported today. Q4 operating income from refining, marketing and the retail stores dropped to $ 342 million from $ 1.7 billion in Q3 2015. Included in that drop was a LIFO inventory charge of $ 370 million, so before the charge, operating income dropped 58% quarter-over-quarter.

    TSO reported (yesterday, I think). Same story. Q4 operating income was $ 179 million down from $ 1.274 billion in Q3 of 2015. Again, there was a LIFO charge of $ 276 million in Q4 2015 so before the charge, operating income dropped 64% Q-over-Q. TSO is not a fair comparison - I think there was a lot of downtime in the 2015 Q. But however you look at it, TSO's profit dropped quite a bit from Q3.

    In Q3 of 2015 the Gulf Coast crack spread averaged $ 17.12 per barrel. In Q4, it averaged $ 9.27. This spread does not apply to NTI, but directionally, the spread was down a lot for all refiners in Q4.

    I track the regular gas price at 1 SuperAmerica station, in Minnetonka. Not because I think it is anything special but I like the name of the town and figured the station would give some direction as to gas prices. At the start of Q4, the net price of gas at the station (net of federal and state taxes) was $ 1.88 per gallon. On Dec 31, the net price was $ 1.40, a drop of 25.5%. And yes, the price dropped pretty steadily over the Q. The price of WTI dropped 17.6% in Q4, per the eia, so NTI's margins on gasoline got squeezed. And my understanding is that gasoline is NTI's most profitable product, which is why they are doing the work to shift more production from asphalt to gasoline.

    Finally, per the Canadian PSAC site, the savings from using WCS stayed around $ 14 per barrel (vs WTI) in Q4.

    So overall, I was expecting a significant drop in NTI's Q4 earnings and distribution. We got the distribution news today, and I think earnings will be down similarly.

    1 more post.

  • Reply to

    CEO Tearing Apart SA Article

    by investorseeker2 Feb 3, 2016 8:31 AM
    jrad52 jrad52 Feb 3, 2016 10:00 AM Flag

    What conference call?

  • Reply to

    Notes Optional Redemption

    by jrummell7 Jan 29, 2016 1:24 PM
    jrad52 jrad52 Feb 3, 2016 9:59 AM Flag

    The 2018 bonds are publicly traded. Like many bonds, volume is sporadic - some days not much at all, other days, decent volume for a $ 425 MM bond issue. Recently, volume has been high (for NRP bonds) but with bonds it's hard to tell exactly. Often they report a single transaction twice or even 3 times, as the broker finds bonds to fill an order.

    And 1 off topic thing - Yahoo message boards are still strange. I got an email this AM from Yahoo saying there was a response to my post about Cliffs selling the mines that it leases from NRP. But there's no response here. Maybe the guy deleted his post and it's not Yahoo's fault. Just strange.

  • Reply to

    Stock looks undervalued

    by macymeister Feb 2, 2016 1:19 PM
    jrad52 jrad52 Feb 2, 2016 2:53 PM Flag

    Welcome aboard. Good luck with ARLP; I also own it but I don't expect to stick around long.

    But I think some of your numbers are off a little. ARLP's guidance for 2016 net income is between $ 1.20 and $ 2.13 - $ 230 MM - $ 300 MM, less the IDRs gets you to the EPS I just stated. So it's only a 7 multiple at the high end of the range they gave. I hope that comes true but that isn't what they gave as guidance. And because they split their income with AHGP, I don't get to a 22% ROIC for 2016 based on their guidance, either.

    And while the distribution is covered by DCF, I'm not sure I would call the coverage "ample". Last year the coverage ratio was around 1.6X, which was great. This year the ratio is expected to drop to 1.1X or 1.2X. Both numbers are decent, and considering it's coal, management should be congratulated. But "ample coverage"? Depends on what you mean by ample, I guess.

    ARLP is the best performing coal miner by far. But now it needs 3 things - 1. the weather to get real cold, real fast, so utilities use up some of their coal inventories. 2. Natural gas prices to rise. and 3. A different party in the White House in 2017. That's why I;m not a long-term holder just now.

  • Reply to

    Notes Optional Redemption

    by jrummell7 Jan 29, 2016 1:24 PM
    jrad52 jrad52 Feb 2, 2016 1:16 PM Flag

    To be fair, they're going to release 2015 earnings and 2016 guidance in a little more than a week. I suspect they don't feel that they can talk to anyone just now.

  • Reply to

    Asset Discrepancy ?

    by briskit44 Jan 25, 2016 12:00 PM
    jrad52 jrad52 Feb 1, 2016 8:06 PM Flag

    DRI has 1,534 locations. The locations that were not dropped down to FCPT were eliminated because (1) some are operating at a revenue level that does not support enough rent to meet FCPT's criteria, (2) some locations don't have enough of an operating history to tell if they will be able to support the rent needed by FCPT, (3) some locations may be closed and relocated so they were eliminated, (4) some locations do not satisfy REIT requirements (no idea what that means), (5) some locations are already leased from other landlords so DRI didn't own them, (6) some locations are subject to ground leases (DRI owns the building but not the land). They may have mentioned other reasons but those are the ones I got. There is an article on Seeking Alpha about this.

    As to the flow of the fixed assets, DRI transferred $ 835 MM of net fixed assets (after accumulated depreciation) to FCPT. DRI also did a bunch of sale leasebacks in the Nov quarter, including the headquarters building, generating proceeds of $ 350 MM. I don't follow DRI so I don't know the accounting treatment for those sales, but I suspect the rest of the change you're looking for can be found there.

  • I think today's announcement goes a long way towards improving NEWT's disclosures. They recognize that they have an unusual BDC model and seem to want investors to get better understanding of it.

    Now if they could only take a second look at the SEC filing that discloses the number of shares that Barry owns, and check to make sure it includes the special dividend shares (I think it doesn't) that he received recently, I'd be really happy.