Elite has been reporting stability results on Eli-200 for months, maybe over a year. Most CCs from 2014 comment on the results (those are 7 months old and counting). On-site reviews of their manufacturing capabilities have also been somewhat regular. They have yet to get tripped up for anything under their control, its all been the unexpected "extra" requirements of the FDA You do realize Elite knows what it is doing, and that the items you mention are under control?
"save themselves some license/royalty fees, and get a piece of the license/royalty pie paid by other users of the technology, no?"
I say "No" to that, because why would HPEV agree to that? This is of course assuming their technology is actually valuable.
I would bet their would be willing to sell the entire company, but I'm not sure they would be interested in selling a piece of it to Siemens, which sounds like what you are suggesting. If HPEV plans to sell to everyone (once one gets the technologies the rest will have to follow), they probably don't want Siemens to have a controlling interest. As for Siemens buying stock now on the open market (their only choice if HPEV is not going to let them own a piece of the company...and I don't think they would), if they are actively testing the a future product of theirs and planning to bring it to market, their buying shares now knowing that the announcement of the license will increase share price has got to be insider trading. If it was announced that Siemens was evaluating the technology for use in their alternators the stock would likely go up.
As for my calling and talking to them, if I hear anything on the call that would motivate me to either buy or sell, and that information has not been publicly announced, isn't that insider trading? And if they don't tell me anything that influences my decision to hold, sell, or buy more what is the purpose? I'm frankly not interested in exposing myself to knowing something I should not know.
SB has to be willing to sell, but more importantly why should a manufacturing company invest in another HPEV's stock? Boeing doesn't want to buy Airbus shares or any other shares, they want to sell their planes and make money. HPEV has said once one manufacturers get it, all the rest will have to get it or lose sales. I think that is an exaggeration, but If they really believe it then at best case they will give early adopters the right to license a particular technology with a monopoly on the license for some set period of time. The partnered company is going to focus and invest in what they can control which is the manufacturing and sale of the products they produce. There stock holders do not want them speculating on other companies stock. One of these companies may someday want to buy rights to the technology, but there is no reason to do that until they establish that products using it have a high demand. So no one is going to try to takeover or buy WARM until it is shown that their technology is all that they say it is.
Once revs are garnered the stock price will go up at which point SB will not be interested in selling at a discount. But if a good rev flow is established I think the few million shares of SB stock can be easily sustained.
The big concern to me is can they bring anything to market, and if they can, whether they really have any of the big8 as partners as their letter to the share holders says. ESSCO is a very small manufacturer with only a few million in sales a year (at least that is what my digging revealed). Their offering a product will not impact revs much. But if Siemens has a license for a motor/generator then thats a different story.
I'm believe it is a reference to the upcoming to to increase allowed shares by from 100k to 140k. We don't know whether they all be issued, and if so over what time frame. It will certainly not occur overnight. Basically a post to solicit doubt that is not very effective. I may gripe, but I believe if they have a product that works as they say it does, AND they can get it to market in a reasonably timely manner, that this is a good investment.
I don't see the point of talking to them. Its not my role as an investor to tell them how to run their business (i.e. tell them they should be communicating more, actually following through on doing what they claim they will, etc.) If they need me to do that sort of thing I should not be invested in this stock. So I have nothing to say to them. They also have nothing to say that I want to hear because they legally can't give me any additional information beyond what they have already told all of us. If they have relevant information that investors should know they should make all investors aware of it. The most they can do is make excuses or make more claims. The fact that they have repeatedly given inaccurate dates for revenue generation is a fact. There is no justifiable reason for being incorrect regarding expected timeframe for sales for something like 10 quarters in a row. I doubt they need me to educate them on that, and I'm not interested in their excuses. The most they can do is repeat the claims they made in their April letter to the shareholders . That is essentially what another poster documented as the outcome of his conversation with someone within the company. I think that investor got sucked into the intimate nature of a one on one conversation and left the conversation with a sense of security about their investment when they had actually heard nothing new and had not basis for changing their feelings based on the phone call alone.
This upcoming earnings report should include an update to expected timeframe for income. last one had mid-year as when they would sell a mobile generation unit. Its Aug.....I don't the window for mid-year is closing fast.
I looked up the address of the ultimate truck store on google maps street view sometime ago and it was still a go-cart business. But if you look now it looks like google went by just that address (maybe because business changed?) and there a pics from Mar and May. The one from May has a few cars in the lot, one unloading boxes. Best guess from the box is that it was the owners home (ha! ha! :) or office equipment. One of the trucks was in the lot, but I could not tell if it had been retrofitted. At least it showed activity in May. Whomever is running that business must be really annoyed because they have owned that property with nothing to sell for over a year.
Sorry the letter to share holders references a different patent. But that one referenced in the letter is likely much further from approval than the one I mentioned, so my annoyance is still valid. Their
"PARALLEL POWER INPUT GEARBOX" patent was just submitted for the first time to an examiner Nov 2014 with no response yet and one not likely for sometime if it follows typical time tables. The one I referenced took 8 months for the first non-final rejection and it was originally submitted in Jan 2011. Either way both technologies they brag about in the letter to share holders are not yet patented. The "Radial Vent Composite Heat Pipe" patent was submitted for initial review Aug 2014.
I realize that I'm getting annoyed just as they might actually do something but the latest filing had a lot of information that was not reflected in the letter to the shareholders PR. BTW, in that letter they claimed they had patents for technologies for which they only have applications. The most important of which "HYBRID PARALLEL LOAD ASSIST SYSTEMS AND METHODS" is undergoing a review in response to its third rejection. So these are not sailing through without issues. And their Heat Pipe Cooled Brake System patent application has been abandoned due to lack of response so that patent is going no where.
My average buy price is pretty high. But I've been down a long time and that isn't really what is annoying me. Its the lack of direct communication and the fact that the communication provided in the filings and PRs is sloppy and woefully inaccurate. The letter to the shareholders was a change in the type of communication and I hope that by putting his name in the public with those assertions he is relatively confident they will be realized. But there isn't much excuse given their history as engineers who have nurtured ideas to revenue for all the mis-direction and overestimations.
- From the truck show PR in March
"Many of them stopped by HPEV’s booth and left with detailed information regarding the 30, 55 and 80 kilovolt-amps (kVA)...The company is accepting orders for the systems now and will begin shipping them in the second half of 2015. Later this year, the company will introduce a 200 kVA system on a Dodge RAM 5500 truck "
From their PR in late Feb
- "“We are pleased to receive this order for the final pilot of the Innova Program. HPEV is currently releasing orders for the 50 initial Mobile Generation kits to our manufacturing partners."
From their PR in early Feb
- "The current HPEV product offering ranges from 25kVa to 200kVa with up to 400kVa expected to be available in 2016"
So they can't get a rating of the units consistent, they ordered 50 MG kits in Feb, but aren't sure they can have them available for sale this year. And they think they can have a 400 kVA unit ready in 2016 when they are possibly only going to bring one of the 4 units they indicated they would have in 2015 (25, 50, 75, 200). BTW they have been accepting orders since summer 2014 with zero sales to date (I consider a sale as something that results in revenue).
That blurb has been in every filing since early 2014. What is your point? They have talked like they are ready to market for almost two years. In mar of this year they said they would have 200k mobile generation in the market this year and now are down to 75k. Their website investor presentation describes transformers as an area under development but their sec filings have never mentioned transformers as a potential market for their technology. They have announced several mobile generation orders and sales yet the sec filings continue to say no revenue to date. The recent deal with Iran could mean cheap gas which will make their mobile generation harder to market. A carbon tax could remedy that but I don't see that happening.
LPC 10 million gone, needs several million more to fund next twelve months, and scaled back mobile near term to only 25 and 50 k sizes. Only positive was 25k is supposed to go to market mid 2015. .... Which is now. Other estimates continue to move forward. But they are getting funds from private investors. Wonder whether they felt cost of LPC was more than they want to pay now they say they are close to market or if LPC doesn't want to give them that much now. Posters comment on how no one has ever seen an actual product or even photo is a good point. I don't doubt they are a real company but I question how close they are to marketing products. They have obviously have lied in past filings because they have said they would have revenues in all three markets way back in 2014. If they don't announce fleet sales for mobile generation at same time it goes to market that will be a concern because they have been supposedly marketing to them for some time. It will cause me to question interest in their product.
Sharing that side of the story hurts Epic's ability to secure good deals in the future. The agreement must be mutually beneficially for both parties or one won't do it. Looks like the pot calling the kettle black.....
On june 17 they submitted request for extension and a response after non-final action for their "HYBRID PARALLEL LOAD ASSIST SYSTEMS AND METHODS" it costs money, usually at least a $100,000 to do anything with a patent. I'm guessing the big sell june 12 was to pay for that response. I'm wondering if they are hoping they can co-announce the opening of the ultimate work truck store and the patent being granted at the same time. Patent office usually takes no more than a few weeks to respond to a response after theirs....versus when it just sits for months and years when first submitted to an examiner. Hopefully since they have already worked this patent for a long time they know what to tweak to get it through.
Whether it is going lower seems to depend on whether large holders sell. There isn't much churn on this stock. SB hasn't sold lately so not sure why they would now for an amount close to break even. If the company needs $$ they will only use LPC as much as they HAVE to to prevent dilution. I'm guessing they did the 250k shares the other day and hoping that gave them enough until they can generate excitement with an announcement. Maybe news with the share holder mtg in July. No one can you what you should do though.
Yes, it's a support level. I only see that happening if spirit bear starts dumping again or if warm starts using LPC to get funds. SB owns 18% and have dumped heavily in the past but thankfully not much lately. Maybe they know there is news coming for which they want to wait. I am sure they are itching to start again because he seems to be a #$%$ (SEC problems how they handled warms investments, multiple lawsuits) and need cash for his lawyers....and ex lawyers.. who are now suing him too.
That contradicts what NH described for the BE studies. They are described as prelinary results then formal report that follows a couple of months later. That is why it takes three plus months after the study for those reports to be formally completed. If anything a phase three is more complicated.